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Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 20th, 2012, 10:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
DevilsPGD[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

In message someone claiming
to be David Monaghan typed:

If you eliminated most of the UK murders on the basis they happened to
people who don't count, the UK rate would be lower, too.


The point isn't eliminating people that don't count, but rather,
eliminating people who voluntarily place themselves in harm's way.

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
  #12  
Old January 21st, 2012, 12:04 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
David Monaghan
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Posts: 11
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:51:04 -0800, DevilsPGD
wrote:

In message someone claiming
to be David Monaghan typed:

If you eliminated most of the UK murders on the basis they happened to
people who don't count, the UK rate would be lower, too.


The point isn't eliminating people that don't count, but rather,
eliminating people who voluntarily place themselves in harm's way.


The law doesn't see it that way and neither do statisticians. You might just
as well include battered wives - "they had enough warnings".

DaveM
  #13  
Old January 21st, 2012, 03:03 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
David Monaghan
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Posts: 11
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:11:53 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:28:18 +0000 (UTC), bill
wrote:


Actually they're going down.

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/
london_crime_rates_city_hall_hopefuls_react_to_f igures_1_1182980

--


Actually..not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oc...es-fall-halted

And it appears..that the crime stats have been juggled for quite a
number of years....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1889927.html

"Mr Grayling replied by promising to "take account of the request by the
Statistics Authority, particularly with regard to the changes to
recording practices made in 2002-03".


Did you read the article? There was a change in the way crime figures were
recorded, resulting in an apparent jump in the crime rate. Not really big
news, unless you're attempting to show there's been a rocketing in some
crime rate since - I don't know, say 1890?.

DaveM
  #14  
Old January 21st, 2012, 05:01 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
DevilsPGD[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

In message someone claiming
to be David Monaghan typed:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:51:04 -0800, DevilsPGD
wrote:

In message someone claiming
to be David Monaghan typed:

If you eliminated most of the UK murders on the basis they happened to
people who don't count, the UK rate would be lower, too.


The point isn't eliminating people that don't count, but rather,
eliminating people who voluntarily place themselves in harm's way.


The law doesn't see it that way and neither do statisticians.


The law as written doesn't see it that way, but I'd bet that as a rule,
police and courts certainly handle gang-on-gang violence differently
than other types.

This is certainly the case in any city where I've lived.

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
  #15  
Old January 21st, 2012, 10:17 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
Gunner Asch[_2_]
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Posts: 30
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:28:58 +0000, David Monaghan
wrote:



Anyway, I take your point: If you pretend two thirds of the murders don't
happen, the US murder rate is only 30% higher than England & Wales. I can
see why you're proud.


So I say..about those gun deaths when firearms were readily available to
all Brits....1 in London for the entire year


That's the second time you've made that claim. It might be possible that the
_City of London_ only had single murder in a Victorian year, but it's known
as "the square mile" for a reason. Even allowing for the much smaller
population then, I don't believe that statistic. Source, please.


DaveM


http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/0...ome/singlepage

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/1440764.stm

Need more? Plenty of them out there.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
  #16  
Old January 21st, 2012, 10:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
Gunner Asch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 02:03:58 +0000, David Monaghan
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:11:53 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:28:18 +0000 (UTC), bill
wrote:


Actually they're going down.

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/
london_crime_rates_city_hall_hopefuls_react_to_ figures_1_1182980

--


Actually..not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oc...es-fall-halted

And it appears..that the crime stats have been juggled for quite a
number of years....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1889927.html

"Mr Grayling replied by promising to "take account of the request by the
Statistics Authority, particularly with regard to the changes to
recording practices made in 2002-03".


Did you read the article? There was a change in the way crime figures were
recorded, resulting in an apparent jump in the crime rate. Not really big
news, unless you're attempting to show there's been a rocketing in some
crime rate since - I don't know, say 1890?.

DaveM



So multiple burglaries in the same home are no longer counted as (1)
burglary as they have been for many years? (as an example)

So..what happened to the falling crime rate? And what happened to the
lack of actual burglaries?

In fact..I know Brits who have stopped reporting crimes simply because
it does absolutely no good.

Now about those machine guns in supervisors vehicles. Whatever are they
there for?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
  #17  
Old January 21st, 2012, 06:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 252
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses toturn off their cell phone?

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:20:29 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:


In fact..I know Brits who have stopped reporting crimes simply because
it does absolutely no good.


I don't.


Now about those machine guns in supervisors vehicles. Whatever are they
there for?


Now what's this one?

As far as anyone is aware there is one single police force in the UK whoa
re allowed access to fully automatic weapons, and that's the Nuclear
Police, for pretty obvious reasons.

Again, as far as is known, they've never ever used them.

--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
  #18  
Old January 21st, 2012, 06:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 252
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses toturn off their cell phone?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:05:57 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:31:44 +0000 (UTC), bill
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 03:47:03 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:08:02 +0000, David Monaghan
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:14:41 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:59:42 +0000, David Monaghan
wrote:

US Murder rate 4.8 per hundred thousand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

England & Wales murder rate 11.5 per million (1.15 per hundred
thousand)

Scotland murder rate 21.4 per million (2.14 per hundred thousand) -
the second highest in Europe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ja...owest-12-years

The occupied home burglary and assault rates in the UK are magnitudes
higher than in the US.

And a little known fact..if one removes the gang killings where gang
members kill gang members..the US falls to 1.5 per hundred thousand.

If you eliminated most of the UK murders on the basis they happened to
people who don't count, the UK rate would be lower, too.

So in the UK...the dead dont count? Fascinating world view you
hold.Cold, nasty and brutish..but typically English.



That's the sort of sophistry that gets you a smack in the mouth in most
places.


And earns a serious beating in return for that smack.


My limited experience is that a firm smack in the mouth ends almost all
fights.

I'd have thought a retired police officer would know that.

There's absolutely no evidence at all that people carried guns as a
matter of routine when no licenses were carried, indeed there's some
evidence that nobody carried guns at all outside sportsmen carrying them
to and from getting them repaired..


Laugh laugh laugh...oh of course not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Outrage

"By this time, all those on foot had arrived at the scene where the
motor car had crashed, and Constable Bond borrowed a small revolver from
a member of the crowd " and so forth and so on.... '


Except if you read the book 'The Battle of Stepney' by Colin Rogers with
care you'll find the guns the police borrowed were all actually inside
two gun shops and the revolver obtained had just been collected from
being repaired.

The Notting Hill outrage was a turning point in the British methodology
for arming the police and after that numbers of firearms were held in all
'divisional police stations' and some officers at those stations were
trained in their use.

This system was used until replaced by the current 'Armed Response Unit'
policy in 1991.


--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
  #19  
Old January 21st, 2012, 07:59 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
David Monaghan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:17:42 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:28:58 +0000, David Monaghan
wrote:


Anyway, I take your point: If you pretend two thirds of the murders don't
happen, the US murder rate is only 30% higher than England & Wales. I can
see why you're proud.


So I say..about those gun deaths when firearms were readily available to
all Brits....1 in London for the entire year


That's the second time you've made that claim. It might be possible that the
_City of London_ only had single murder in a Victorian year, but it's known
as "the square mile" for a reason. Even allowing for the much smaller
population then, I don't believe that statistic. Source, please.


http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm


No mention of London.

http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/0...ome/singlepage


No mention of a year in London with a single murder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/1440764.stm


No mention of a year in London with a single murder.

Need more? Plenty of them out there.


I only need one, providing it has a reliable source reference for your
claim: "In the UK, before the Acts of 1920..the murder rates in the UK were
far lower. What was it...hummm 1890...(1) murder in London, and that done
with an ax."

Anyway, it's hardly surprising the murder rates are converging, although
they're still a long way apart. Since 1979 on there's been an increasing gap
between the earnings of the most wealthy and the least. The connection
between violent crime and inequality is what's driving the change. In that
sense are crime rate is rising because we're becoming more like the US.
Hmmm. I wonder if that means your crime rates are dropping because you're
becoming more like us? There's a thought...

DaveM
  #20  
Old January 22nd, 2012, 01:34 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.piloting
Gunner Asch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Am you legally justified in killing a passenger who refuses to turn off their cell phone?

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 17:06:50 +0000 (UTC), bill
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:20:29 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:


In fact..I know Brits who have stopped reporting crimes simply because
it does absolutely no good.


I don't.


Im not surprised no one wishes to discuss things with you.




Now about those machine guns in supervisors vehicles. Whatever are they
there for?


Now what's this one?


So you dont have an answer?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...irst-time.html


As far as anyone is aware there is one single police force in the UK whoa
re allowed access to fully automatic weapons, and that's the Nuclear
Police, for pretty obvious reasons.

Again, as far as is known, they've never ever used them.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...irst-time.html

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/bre...-1225945812696

http://middleeasy.com/index.php?opti...:organizations


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
 




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