Woman Sues Airline For Humiliation Over Her Weight

Bob Myers wrote:
"Matt" wrote in message
...

No, they make seats big enough to fit 99.999% of passengers.



I'd be curious to know where you came up with
that figure, and what you mean by "fit." My
problem is generally with the pitch - I am
definitely NOT comfortable if I can't get a seat
in the "Economy Plus" section (one reason I
still maintain my frequent flyer status on United
- and God knows there are few enough reasons
these days, but that's another thread). Would
you suggest that I pay for two seats, and have
them remove the one in front of me, or would
it be best just to have my legs shortened by
a few inches before my next trip?

Bob M.



No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is
to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible
cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at
best.


But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a
car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold
to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid
his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend
because there are already too many students there.

Those scenarios are absurd. Colleges always accomodate incoming
Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements
must be made for their housing.

So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go
all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find
that there's no room on the plane?


I wish airlines would either stop overbooking (or make an effort to do
so). If they can't, then they should 1:give bumped passengers free
tickets on the next flight to their destination no matter what airline
it's on (the airline that bumped them buys the ticket on a competitor if
it needs to); 2: as a rule -underbook- the last flight of the day to any
given destination, so that this flight can pick up bumped passengers
from earlier flights.

Adam Weiss wrote:

No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is
to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible
cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at
best.


But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a
car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold
to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid
his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend
because there are already too many students there.

The solution to your problem would be to make all tickets non refundable
and non changeable. That way, if you pay for a seat and it goes empty,
the airline doesn't lose the revenue. In the current pricing structure,
if they didn't overbook, then they would fly with empty seats. Flying
with empty seats is not seen as a way to maximize revenue. So, the goal
is to guess exactly how many won't show up, and overbook by that exact
number. The closer the guess, the greater the revenue. The other
alternative is that if you want a seat on the next flight, no matter
what carrier, pay for it. The overbook airline would refund the money
for your ticket. Yes, you will probably have to pay more for it than the
seat you have already purchased, but then someone has to pay for it.

Amazing how many people want such benefits, but only a small
percentage are willing to pay for them. People, in general, do NOT want
non-refundable or non-changeable tickets. It has been tried and it has
failed.

People, in general, want lower priced tickets. People, in general,
have proven that they are willing to make trade offs to get those
cheaper tickets. Compare service between now and 30 years ago. Most
people would say that economy class service is not the same product as
it was 30 or 40 years ago. The price reductions from 30 or 40 years ago
have been substantial. Was there some expectation that you could have
the same service for far less money?

Adam Weiss wrote:

No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is
to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible
cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at
best.


But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a
car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold
to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid
his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend
because there are already too many students there.

The solution to your problem would be to make all tickets non refundable
and non changeable. That way, if you pay for a seat and it goes empty,
the airline doesn't lose the revenue. In the current pricing structure,
if they didn't overbook, then they would fly with empty seats. Flying
with empty seats is not seen as a way to maximize revenue. So, the goal
is to guess exactly how many won't show up, and overbook by that exact
number. The closer the guess, the greater the revenue. The other
alternative is that if you want a seat on the next flight, no matter
what carrier, pay for it. The overbook airline would refund the money
for your ticket. Yes, you will probably have to pay more for it than the
seat you have already purchased, but then someone has to pay for it.

Amazing how many people want such benefits, but only a small
percentage are willing to pay for them. People, in general, do NOT want
non-refundable or non-changeable tickets. It has been tried and it has
failed.

People, in general, want lower priced tickets. People, in general,
have proven that they are willing to make trade offs to get those
cheaper tickets. Compare service between now and 30 years ago. Most
people would say that economy class service is not the same product as
it was 30 or 40 years ago. The price reductions from 30 or 40 years ago
have been substantial. Was there some expectation that you could have
the same service for far less money?

"Adam Weiss" wrote in message
...

No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is
to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible
cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at
best.

Why do you think that is? Because the passengers care more about fares than
comfort and service. Is that the fault of the airlines?



But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a

If they didn't overbook then every flight would probably be 20% empty from
no-shows, and you'd have to pay more for your ticket to pay for all the
empty seats. I do agree that they should put you on the next flight, even
if it is a competitor.

Matt

"Adam Weiss" wrote in message
...

No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is
to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible
cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at
best.

Why do you think that is? Because the passengers care more about fares than
comfort and service. Is that the fault of the airlines?



But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a

If they didn't overbook then every flight would probably be 20% empty from
no-shows, and you'd have to pay more for your ticket to pay for all the
empty seats. I do agree that they should put you on the next flight, even
if it is a competitor.

Matt

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:02:42 GMT, Adam Weiss
wrote:

Bob Myers wrote:
"Matt" wrote in message
...

No, they make seats big enough to fit 99.999% of passengers.



I'd be curious to know where you came up with
that figure, and what you mean by "fit." My
problem is generally with the pitch - I am
definitely NOT comfortable if I can't get a seat
in the "Economy Plus" section (one reason I
still maintain my frequent flyer status on United
- and God knows there are few enough reasons
these days, but that's another thread). Would
you suggest that I pay for two seats, and have
them remove the one in front of me, or would
it be best just to have my legs shortened by
a few inches before my next trip?

Bob M.



No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is
to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible
cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at
best.


Yes, this is called capitalism. It's about free markets, airlines are
businesses, they respond to market demands. The market demands lowest
ticket price above all. It is not a perfect system, but in my opinion
in areas such as air transport it is preferable to an entitlement
culture in some socialist paradise where the government runs
businesses.




But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a
car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold
to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid
his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend
because there are already too many students there.

Those scenarios are absurd. Colleges always accomodate incoming
Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements
must be made for their housing.

So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go
all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find
that there's no room on the plane?

I wish airlines would either stop overbooking (or make an effort to do
so). If they can't, then they should 1:give bumped passengers free
tickets on the next flight to their destination no matter what airline
it's on (the airline that bumped them buys the ticket on a competitor if
it needs to); 2: as a rule -underbook- the last flight of the day to any
given destination, so that this flight can pick up bumped passengers
from earlier flights.


Fine, so you want higher airfares for everyone. Why don't you just
come out and say so?

--==++AJC++==--

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:02:42 GMT, Adam Weiss
wrote:

Bob Myers wrote:
"Matt" wrote in message
...

No, they make seats big enough to fit 99.999% of passengers.



I'd be curious to know where you came up with
that figure, and what you mean by "fit." My
problem is generally with the pitch - I am
definitely NOT comfortable if I can't get a seat
in the "Economy Plus" section (one reason I
still maintain my frequent flyer status on United
- and God knows there are few enough reasons
these days, but that's another thread). Would
you suggest that I pay for two seats, and have
them remove the one in front of me, or would
it be best just to have my legs shortened by
a few inches before my next trip?

Bob M.



No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is
to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible
cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at
best.


Yes, this is called capitalism. It's about free markets, airlines are
businesses, they respond to market demands. The market demands lowest
ticket price above all. It is not a perfect system, but in my opinion
in areas such as air transport it is preferable to an entitlement
culture in some socialist paradise where the government runs
businesses.




But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a
car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold
to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid
his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend
because there are already too many students there.

Those scenarios are absurd. Colleges always accomodate incoming
Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements
must be made for their housing.

So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go
all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find
that there's no room on the plane?

I wish airlines would either stop overbooking (or make an effort to do
so). If they can't, then they should 1:give bumped passengers free
tickets on the next flight to their destination no matter what airline
it's on (the airline that bumped them buys the ticket on a competitor if
it needs to); 2: as a rule -underbook- the last flight of the day to any
given destination, so that this flight can pick up bumped passengers
from earlier flights.


Fine, so you want higher airfares for everyone. Why don't you just
come out and say so?

--==++AJC++==--

Adam Weiss wrote:

Colleges always accomodate incoming
Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements
must be made for their housing.

False, actually. It's been known to happen that colleges turn away
"incoming Freshman", even if tuition had been paid.

AJC wrote:



Yes, this is called capitalism. It's about free markets, airlines are
businesses, they respond to market demands. The market demands lowest
ticket price above all. It is not a perfect system, but in my opinion
in areas such as air transport it is preferable to an entitlement
culture in some socialist paradise where the government runs
businesses.


The big airlines have proven that they aren't very quick to respond to
market trends. Witness the fact that startups are generally profitable
while established airlines struggle to be so. It's not just because the
established airlines have to pay employee pensions. It's also because
the airlines still operate on the outdated hub and spoke model while
startups concentrate on money making routes.

Why do I bring this up? Because even if passengers demanded better
comfort at a slightly higher price (as it certainly appears some are
doing here, including myself), it's doubtful that anyone other than a
startup would heed the call, and the startup would see that the
competition isn't doing it so they'd stop too.


Fine, so you want higher airfares for everyone. Why don't you just
come out and say so?

No. I just wouldn't mind another class in airplanes, between coach and
business. I personally want to fly an airline that cares about me, but
it's hard to justify $900 or more for a business or first class ticket.

"Economy Plus" is a joke. It's not an official class like first,
business, or coach. It should be.

If I could pay $50 or $100 more than a regular coach ticket, get better
legroom, slightly better food (not talking the 4 course meals they serve
in first class here), and a guarantee that I'll have a seat on the plane
I made a reservation on - I'd do it!

I'm not interested in forcing you to do it as well. If you're happy
with coach you're welcomed to it.

--==++AJC++==--

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:02:42 GMT, Adam Weiss
wrote:

But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me
about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a
car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold
to someone else.

I've known this to happen in the UK, especially with cars on long
waiting lists, the new car comes in, but instead of going to the guy
who ordered it, it's been given to someone else as a replacement for a
broken one, or less often sold to someone who paid more to jump the
queue.

So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go
all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find
that there's no room on the plane?

but you're offerred compensation for your trouble, I don't see
anything wrong with it.

Jim.