Avoid Delta and Atlanta

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 02:49:50 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me writes:

Your logic is broken. No-one said anything about heating.

You say that education can compensate for excessive heat. Logically,
then, education can also compensate for excessive cold. Thus, there's
no more need for heating systems than there is for air conditioning
systems.

As cold does not mean hot, your logic is broken.

Believe it or not, they are two very different things.

Heating is a necessity. Air conditioning is a luxury.

"Iceman" wrote ....

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 02:49:50 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me writes:

Your logic is broken. No-one said anything about heating.

You say that education can compensate for excessive heat. Logically,
then, education can also compensate for excessive cold. Thus, there's
no more need for heating systems than there is for air conditioning
systems.

As cold does not mean hot, your logic is broken.

Believe it or not, they are two very different things.

Heating is a necessity. Air conditioning is a luxury.

For much of the world's populatiuon, "heating" is a long way from a
necessity. While it increases the comfort level, in South Florida and South
Texas, entire Winters go by in which the temperature rarely bips below 32F
and only stays blow 50F for very short periods. A bit of insulation anda
sweater or, pewrish the thought a warm jacket and long johns under your
shorts overcomes the discomfort. South to the Equator and South of that to
30S or so, unless one lives at high altitude, a majority of the world's
population could function without heating (although in very low income
households, the "cook fire" does form an adjunct source of heat.

For those of us who grew up in the era before residential air conditioning
was available to any but the "severely rich" and for whom air conditioned
businesses were limited to banks and movie theaters, what was once a luxury
has certainly become a necessity, as much from the changes in lifestyles and
how commercial buildings are built and used. Before AC, the "Big Barn"
retail outlets were largely non-existent. "Department stores" were
multi-story with many large operable windows. Houses depended on windows,
and in much of the Southern US, screened sleeping porches were common (and
used!).

The first auto AC with which I was familiar was a "FrigiKing" under-dash
addon to our family 1952 Ford station, and my first personal car with AC
didn't come until my last year in college, 1961, a '57 Plymouth "Spote"
Fury, and I drove cars without AC much later, a '64VW from '64 until '66,
and later a '67GMC pickup, a '72 Kharman Ghia and a '72 VW Convegitatable.
By 1980 or so, very few vehicles other than basic stripped pickups and
Japanese "minicars" as we called them came without AC ater area dealerships.

Certainly, even though the temp drops into the low teens here and snow falls
now and then (if rarely), if you required me to remove either the heating
system of the AC from my home, I'd hand over the heat first (especially if I
could keep the fireplace for the illusion of heat.

Part of that equation is the fact that from last Friday until this Thursday,
the temperature was over 100F every afternoon, topping out at 105 or so, and
didn't drop below 78F at night, not very "cool" when the humidity remains
above 50%. With the computers shut down and the banks of windows on three
sides open and the ceiling fan on, I could have spent the night in my
upstairs office in only moderate "pillow-wetting" discomfort, but the lack
of ventilation downstairs, even with several fans, would have been
marginally intolerable for an old geezer.

TMO

Iceman writes:

Heating is a necessity. Air conditioning is a luxury.

Just as heating is a necessity when the temperature is 4° C, A/C is a
necessity when the temperature is 36° C.

In fact, however, A/C is more necessary than heating, because it is
possible to diminish the need for heating by dressing warmly and
simply conserving body heat; whereas the need for cooling cannot be
diminished by any type of dress, since the human body generates heat
constantly, which must be removed.

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TOliver writes:

For much of the world's populatiuon, "heating" is a long way from a
necessity.

And conversely, for those same populations, air conditioning is a
necessity, at least if they wish to form productive societies.

While it increases the comfort level, in South Florida and South
Texas, entire Winters go by in which the temperature rarely bips below 32F
and only stays blow 50F for very short periods.

This is increasingly true for parts of Europe as well.

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Jim Ley writes:

So if the pollution was captured and stored, there'd be no problem
with them?

They would still be exhausted eventually, but the main problem with
using them would be eliminated.

Society really needs to concentrate on alternative sources of energy.
Unfortunately, wind and solar power are too dispersed to be much more
than a joke in most locations, but there is still the option of
nuclear power, and if fusion can be tamed, that would be better still.

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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:03:49 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Iceman writes:

Heating is a necessity. Air conditioning is a luxury.

Just as heating is a necessity when the temperature is 4° C, A/C is a
necessity when the temperature is 36° C.

In fact, however, A/C is more necessary than heating, because it is
possible to diminish the need for heating by dressing warmly and
simply conserving body heat; whereas the need for cooling cannot be
diminished by any type of dress, since the human body generates heat
constantly, which must be removed.

You are grossly over simplifying things. There are many means of
dealing with heat other than air-con.

I know this, because I have dealt with the heat effectively, and don't
suffer. Wanna learn how?
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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Dave Frightens Me writes:

You are grossly over simplifying things.

No, I'm not. That's what it boils down to, and that's what people
don't understand.

There are many means of dealing with heat other than air-con.

The only way to remove heat is with refrigeration. The only way to
remove cold is with heating.

The fundamental difference between the two is that buildings and
people produce heat continuously, which must be removed, no matter
what the weather is like. This means that you can keep people warm
just by insulating them, but you cannot keep them cool without some
form of active cooling. You can survive without any type of heating
even at -80° C if you are wearing the right clothing, but you cannot
survive for more than a few minutes at +80° C unless you have active
cooling systems to remove heat.

I know this, because I have dealt with the heat effectively, and don't
suffer. Wanna learn how?

Try me. I was born and raised in a desert.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Iceman writes:

Heating is a necessity. Air conditioning is a luxury.

Just as heating is a necessity when the temperature is 4° C, A/C is a
necessity when the temperature is 36° C.

In fact, however, A/C is more necessary than heating, because it is
possible to diminish the need for heating by dressing warmly and
simply conserving body heat; whereas the need for cooling cannot be
diminished by any type of dress, since the human body generates heat
constantly, which must be removed.


Forgive me for using a technical expression here, but that is a load of
crap.

JohnT

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:55:01 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me writes:

There are many means of dealing with heat other than air-con.

The only way to remove heat is with refrigeration. The only way to
remove cold is with heating.

The fundamental difference between the two is that buildings and
people produce heat continuously,

No building produces heat.

which must be removed, no matter
what the weather is like. This means that you can keep people warm
just by insulating them, but you cannot keep them cool without some
form of active cooling. You can survive without any type of heating
even at -80° C if you are wearing the right clothing, but you cannot
survive for more than a few minutes at +80° C unless you have active
cooling systems to remove heat.

I know this, because I have dealt with the heat effectively, and don't
suffer. Wanna learn how?

Try me. I was born and raised in a desert.

You left. That suggests you didn't learn a thing.
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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--

Dave Frightens Me writes:

No building produces heat.

All buildings produce heat, from lights, office machines, the people
inside, and so on. Large buildings must be air-conditioned even in
cool climates, in order to remove the heat that they generate. Modern
skyscrapers wouldn't be possible without air conditioning to keep them
cool. The same is true for shopping centers, factories, etc.

You left. That suggests you didn't learn a thing.

On the contrary, I learned that a hellhole with air conditioning is
still a hellhole, and I decided to move somewhere where I don't have
to spend nine months of the year indoors.

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