Voluntary Bumping

Will be connecting thru LHR at Christmas on British Airways.
Any advice on how to increase chances of being bumped voluntarily.
Also what type of compensation do BA normally offer,cash, free roundtrip
tickets etc.
Would appreciate any info .
Thanks.
Dave.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:42:53 -0400 'DAVE BEEDIE'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

Will be connecting thru LHR at Christmas on British Airways.
Any advice on how to increase chances of being bumped voluntarily.
Also what type of compensation do BA normally offer,cash, free roundtrip
tickets etc.
Would appreciate any info .

When BA tried to bump me late February on a Bangkok to London
journey they offered:

1.a night in an airport hotel+breakfast (time unlikely permitted it).

2.a flight to Hong Kong the following morning to connect to London.

3.about sterling equivalent of 250 pounds by way of a special card
which they said "could be used in most ATMs". hhmmm.

In hindsight I should have taken it...

On 17 Jun, 12:53, hummingbird wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:42:53 -0400 'DAVE BEEDIE'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

Will be connecting thru LHR at Christmas on British Airways.
Any advice on how to increase chances of being bumped voluntarily.
Also what type of compensation do BA normally offer,cash, free roundtrip
tickets etc.
Would appreciate any info .

When BA tried to bump me late February on a Bangkok to London
journey they offered:

1.a night in an airport hotel+breakfast (time unlikely permitted it).

2.a flight to Hong Kong the following morning to connect to London.

3.about sterling equivalent of 250 pounds by way of a special card
which they said "could be used in most ATMs". hhmmm.

In hindsight I should have taken it...

I used to regularly get offered inducements on short Euro pond-
hoppers. I booked early but was always travelling on the Friday
evening flight.

The dosh sounded attractive but I really couldn't be bothered as I
would be travelling out again the following week and even re-routing
with indirect flights seemed like too much hassle.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:15:11 -0700 '
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

On 17 Jun, 12:53, hummingbird wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:42:53 -0400 'DAVE BEEDIE'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

Will be connecting thru LHR at Christmas on British Airways.
Any advice on how to increase chances of being bumped voluntarily.
Also what type of compensation do BA normally offer,cash, free roundtrip
tickets etc.
Would appreciate any info .

When BA tried to bump me late February on a Bangkok to London
journey they offered:

1.a night in an airport hotel+breakfast (time unlikely permitted it).

2.a flight to Hong Kong the following morning to connect to London.

3.about sterling equivalent of 250 pounds by way of a special card
which they said "could be used in most ATMs". hhmmm.

In hindsight I should have taken it...

I used to regularly get offered inducements on short Euro pond-
hoppers. I booked early but was always travelling on the Friday
evening flight.

The dosh sounded attractive but I really couldn't be bothered as I
would be travelling out again the following week and even re-routing
with indirect flights seemed like too much hassle.

Personally I think that airlines should not be allowed to overbook
flights at all, save unforeseen breakdowns etc.
When a passenger buys a ticket, that should form a contract of
travel for the date/time specified.
The current farce is entirely of the airlines' own making.

"hummingbird" wrote ......


Personally I think that airlines should not be allowed to overbook
flights at all, save unforeseen breakdowns etc.
When a passenger buys a ticket, that should form a contract of
travel for the date/time specified.
The current farce is entirely of the airlines' own making.

Should we follow your course, airline tickets would immediately rise
substantially in price.

Airlines routinely analyze the number of "paid" (mostly full fare, the sort
that can be changed without penalty) reservations who fail to show. We
might argue over the validity of their statistics, and the results differ by
route, season, time of day, etc.. The fact remains that no shows are
predictable.

The airlines "sell" those expected empty seats by over booking.

Often (but less than you might expect) they "guess" wrong, and have to
"bump".

Often, at some "price", volunteers can be enlisted.

Sometimes not, and you or I are "bumped", involuntarily denied boarding, in
the US and the EU subject to well defined rules of compensation/make good.

There are other situations in which unexpected pax, from VIPs to mechanics,
and on through a whole range of possibilities need to be boarded. I once
got bumped for a part of the President's Secret Service detail. I was
****ed at spending the night in Dallas, but he had stayed longer than
expected in a location, and reliefs had to be flown to the scene, with none
of the President's Flight a/c at Andrews available. Unable to get me home,
it cost the airline two meal vouchers, a hotel room, two taxi fares, a
flight to IAH, then a flight to ACT on another airline (since AA/Eagle had
no seats the next morning direct to ACT), and a sizeable voucher. I figured
out that in this case, taking the voluntary was actually a better deal
financially than the IVDB payoff.

So unless you (and all those full fare passengers) are willing to pay more
for a ticket for which if you "no show" there's no changing flights or
refund, only buying a new ticket, I'm not sure you can reasonably expect the
airline to accept your version of the "conditions of carriage". For every
privilege, favor or benefit you receive, the airline reserves an off-setting
right. I bet that there are several airlines out there that will sell you a
"No bump, ever" ticket or lifetime pass. All you have to do is be willing
to pay for it....

I'd just as soon keep buying cheap tickets, but then I'm self employed, so
the costs comes from my pocket....

TMO

"hummingbird" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:15:11 -0700 '
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

On 17 Jun, 12:53, hummingbird wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:42:53 -0400 'DAVE BEEDIE'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

Will be connecting thru LHR at Christmas on British Airways.
Any advice on how to increase chances of being bumped voluntarily.
Also what type of compensation do BA normally offer,cash, free
roundtrip
tickets etc.
Would appreciate any info .

When BA tried to bump me late February on a Bangkok to London
journey they offered:

1.a night in an airport hotel+breakfast (time unlikely permitted it).

2.a flight to Hong Kong the following morning to connect to London.

3.about sterling equivalent of 250 pounds by way of a special card
which they said "could be used in most ATMs". hhmmm.

In hindsight I should have taken it...

I used to regularly get offered inducements on short Euro pond-
hoppers. I booked early but was always travelling on the Friday
evening flight.

The dosh sounded attractive but I really couldn't be bothered as I
would be travelling out again the following week and even re-routing
with indirect flights seemed like too much hassle.

Personally I think that airlines should not be allowed to overbook
flights at all, save unforeseen breakdowns etc.
When a passenger buys a ticket, that should form a contract of
travel for the date/time specified.

I am certain that you will find, it is the punters who don't
want to make this commitment. The airline would just
love to be in a world where ever single one of their full
fare passengers lost their fare if they didn't turn up for
their flight. The reality is they would sell few full priced
tickets if this were the rule.

The current farce is entirely of the airlines' own making.

Because it's the one that the passangers that contribute the
airline's profits want.

tim

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:10 -0500 'TMOliver'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

"hummingbird" wrote ......


Personally I think that airlines should not be allowed to overbook
flights at all, save unforeseen breakdowns etc.
When a passenger buys a ticket, that should form a contract of
travel for the date/time specified.
The current farce is entirely of the airlines' own making.

Should we follow your course, airline tickets would immediately rise
substantially in price.

That's what the airlines would say.
Even if it were true, it wouldn't be a bad thing. Budget ticket prices
are often far too cheap and long haul often far too expensive due to
inter-governmental agreements which are anti-competitive and only in
the interests of govts and airlines, not passengers.

We see the consequences of excessive air travel all around us.
Pollution - noise - gridlock near airports - ever greater airports -
airports seething with people etc etc.


Airlines routinely analyze the number of "paid" (mostly full fare, the sort
that can be changed without penalty)

That is the farce of their own making I referred to earlier.

reservations who fail to show. We
might argue over the validity of their statistics, and the results differ by
route, season, time of day, etc.. The fact remains that no shows are
predictable.

Only because airlines decide to sell tickets with those Ts&Cs. If a
ticket was for travel on a day/time/flight the problem would go away.
That's what happens on many other forms of travel.

The airlines "sell" those expected empty seats by over booking.

See above.

Often (but less than you might expect) they "guess" wrong, and have to
"bump".

More likely they do the calcs and then add on 10% or whatever.
Also see above re. ticket prices.


Often, at some "price", volunteers can be enlisted.

Sometimes not, and you or I are "bumped", involuntarily denied boarding, in
the US and the EU subject to well defined rules of compensation/make good.

Rules which are not acceptable to me.

There are other situations in which unexpected pax, from VIPs to mechanics,

Mechanics would come into my previous category of unforeseen
situations. Not so VIPs. I would not object to a pax *being asked*
if he would accept an alt flight to make way for a VIP but once he
has bought his ticket, he should hold the ace card and should not be
bumped to make way for anybody (save unforeseen situations).


and on through a whole range of possibilities need to be boarded. I once
got bumped for a part of the President's Secret Service detail. I was
****ed at spending the night in Dallas, but he had stayed longer than
expected in a location, and reliefs had to be flown to the scene, with none
of the President's Flight a/c at Andrews available. Unable to get me home,
it cost the airline two meal vouchers, a hotel room, two taxi fares, a
flight to IAH, then a flight to ACT on another airline (since AA/Eagle had
no seats the next morning direct to ACT), and a sizeable voucher. I figured
out that in this case, taking the voluntary was actually a better deal
financially than the IVDB payoff.

An unacceptable situation.

So unless you (and all those full fare passengers) are willing to pay more
for a ticket for which if you "no show" there's no changing flights or
refund, only buying a new ticket, I'm not sure you can reasonably expect the
airline to accept your version of the "conditions of carriage".

Now you are describing the other extreme. There is a midway positon
where the penalty for not catching your flight is equal to the price
your seat could have been sold to ano pax (that probably amounts to
the lowest ticket price on board in the relevant class).

So you wouldn't lose all your ticket fare....only a sum equal to the
airline's loss. Are you with me?


For every
privilege, favor or benefit you receive, the airline reserves an off-setting
right. I bet that there are several airlines out there that will sell you a
"No bump, ever" ticket or lifetime pass. All you have to do is be willing
to pay for it....

Fine. It depends how much.


I'd just as soon keep buying cheap tickets, but then I'm self employed, so
the costs comes from my pocket....

All my tickets are at my expense nowadays but I still would prefer to
fly in something other than cattle class and the risk of being bumped.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:01:10 +0100 'tim.....'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

"hummingbird" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:15:11 -0700 '
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

On 17 Jun, 12:53, hummingbird wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:42:53 -0400 'DAVE BEEDIE'
posted this onto rec.travel.air:

Will be connecting thru LHR at Christmas on British Airways.
Any advice on how to increase chances of being bumped voluntarily.
Also what type of compensation do BA normally offer,cash, free
roundtrip
tickets etc.
Would appreciate any info .

When BA tried to bump me late February on a Bangkok to London
journey they offered:

1.a night in an airport hotel+breakfast (time unlikely permitted it).

2.a flight to Hong Kong the following morning to connect to London.

3.about sterling equivalent of 250 pounds by way of a special card
which they said "could be used in most ATMs". hhmmm.

In hindsight I should have taken it...

I used to regularly get offered inducements on short Euro pond-
hoppers. I booked early but was always travelling on the Friday
evening flight.

The dosh sounded attractive but I really couldn't be bothered as I
would be travelling out again the following week and even re-routing
with indirect flights seemed like too much hassle.

Personally I think that airlines should not be allowed to overbook
flights at all, save unforeseen breakdowns etc.
When a passenger buys a ticket, that should form a contract of
travel for the date/time specified.

I am certain that you will find, it is the punters who don't
want to make this commitment. The airline would just
love to be in a world where ever single one of their full
fare passengers lost their fare if they didn't turn up for
their flight. The reality is they would sell few full priced
tickets if this were the rule.

The current farce is entirely of the airlines' own making.

Because it's the one that the passangers that contribute the
airline's profits want.

I don't agree with that premise. The current ticketing system was
introduced by airlines, not passengers. Airlines do things which are
in their own interests, not the passengers' interests. People accept
the current system because mostly they don't know any better.

In article .com, Jim
Davis wrote:

So if you volunteer for a bump, board the plane, and stow your
things. If you are needed for the bump, you can easily get off the
plane.

all the times i've volunteered to bump, i've had to give the gate agent
my boarding pass until they decided if i was going to be bumped or not.
without a boarding pass in hand, it is rather difficult to board...

hummingbird wrote:


Personally I think that airlines should not be allowed to overbook
flights at all, save unforeseen breakdowns etc.
When a passenger buys a ticket, that should form a contract of
travel for the date/time specified.
The current farce is entirely of the airlines' own making.

I suspect you don't have a clue why overbooking is a good thing.

Some reasons.

1. Not everybody makes flights. If airlines didn't overbook, planes
would fly with empty seats that could have been filled by passengers
that needed them.

2. IDB is rare. Usually, if for some reason more people showed up than
there were seats for, the airlines finds enough volunteers to give up
their seats.

Would you be willing to trade overbooking for not being able to have
value in your ticket if you miss a flight? Would you trade it for higher
fares?