Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:06:26 -0700, Hatunen wrote:

I take it back. I did say that.

It's a pity so few here are capable of being so humble.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Dave Frightens Me writes:

For what meaning of 'race'? It's used nowadays to suggest skin colour,
although you undoubtedly wouldn't want to make it as clear as that.

In the USA, race refers to statutory minorities, not necessarily any
physiological characteristics. For example, native Americans with
dark skin whose ancestors largely came to the USA centuries ago from
Africa are "African-Americans," but recent immigrants from South
Africa or Egypt with pale skin are not. Aboriginals are called
Indians or natives; Indians are called Asians, as are people from the
Orient; native Americans are called Anglos, even if they have no
Anglo-Saxon ancestry. And so on. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Why didn't you mention this until now?

The topic didn't come up until now.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Sarah Banick writes:

Wow. So you're saying that anyone who speaks the "black" dialect is not
capable of learning to speak proper English (or German, or Arabic, or
whatever) for use in the general population?

No, I'm saying that anyone who speaks substandard English (including
the "black dialect") is doomed to failure in a professional context
and in some social contexts. Those who speak this type of English are
usually quite capable of learning standard English and may have done
so, but unless they are willing to use it, they will most likely spend
their lives cleaning toilets or wearing orange jumpsuits.

Plenty of people speak their dialect at home and use proper English
on their jobs.

Good for them. Now if they could just speak proper English all the
time ...

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Padraig Breathnach writes:

So a West Virginian farmer sounds like a Californian farmer?

Most Americans are not farmers. People who live in isolated areas
with limited mobility may have mild accents, but they don't represent
the mainstream.

The simple proof of this is that Americans routinely ask each other,
"So, where are you from?"

They also routinely ask "how are you?". Does that mean they are all
conducting medical research?

B;

James Silverton wrote:
Hello, Stephen!
You wrote on Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:49:52 -0700:

SD I seem to recall a TV show or movie, I forget which, that
SD contained a character, a teenaged girl from the southern
SD US, saying to a northerner, "Ah don' have an ack-sayent,
SD y'all do!"

Did she really? I had always understood y'all was second person
*plural* but, come to think of it, I seem to remember someone
saying that Texicans were beginning to mess up Southern speech
again!

Surely one of the beauties of "y'all" is that it can be singular or
plural, so allowing the speaker to remain ambiguous if desired?

B;

Sarah Banick wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
writes:

It's confused. Someone brought in "black
english or jive" to which you suggested that such
dialects were "substandard". You were asked about
what substandard was and you suggested the
ability to get a job. Someone questioned whether
that was a useful definition and you suggested it
was unless one wanted to be a welfare receipient
or a drug dealer.

In other words, I didn't say anything about race.

So whether you intended it or not, you jumped
from speaking a "black" dialect to being a drug
dealer which would tend to suggest a certain
bias on the subject. Not clear cut however.

The "black" dialect is spoken by some whites, too. And anyone who
speaks it is going to spend his life as a loser, no matter what the
color of his skin. Being black or white has nothing to do with it.

Wow. So you're saying that anyone who speaks the "black" dialect is not
capable of learning to speak proper English (or German, or Arabic, or
whatever) for use in the general population? Plenty of people speak their
dialect at home and use proper English on their jobs.

Don't be surprised. Remember:

Jim Ley wrote:
So you believe africans are stupid, in some way less able than people
from other countries?

Mixi responded:

As a group, yes. The Chinese were building rockets centuries ago;
they obviously were not and are not stupid. Africans, in contrast, are
still living in dung-covered huts after 10,000 years. This does not
speak highly of their cognitive capacity.

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:24:04 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me writes:

Why didn't you mention this until now?

The topic didn't come up until now.

You brought up Bill Cosby, didn't you?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:26:05 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Sarah Banick writes:

Wow. So you're saying that anyone who speaks the "black" dialect is not
capable of learning to speak proper English (or German, or Arabic, or
whatever) for use in the general population?

No, I'm saying that anyone who speaks substandard English (including
the "black dialect") is doomed to failure in a professional context
and in some social contexts. Those who speak this type of English are
usually quite capable of learning standard English

There is no such thing.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Dave Frightens Me writes:

There is no such thing.

There is indeed such a thing, and speaking it helps one to get a
decent job.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:26:34 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me writes:

There is no such thing.

There is indeed such a thing, and speaking it helps one to get a
decent job.

There is no such thing as standard English. It doesn't exist.

And you don't have a decent job.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--