VISA Cops Imprison Innocent UK Tourists

alohacyberian writes
The OP is a British guy, so he is from a country that Bush himself calls
"America's best friend". And he is treated like a criminal? Shame on the US
government.
Sjoerd


That could well be the case because he IS a criminal. ;-)

No, he isn't a criminal. He's someone who didn't do his homework and
turned up at a port of entry with the wrong visa. As such, the
immigration authorities have every right to refuse entry. But there's no
excuse for the heavy handed treatment.
--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:28:32 +0200, "Sjoerd"
wrote:

By the way, have you ever heard about an American who was put in prison in a
Western, allied country for minor immigration issues such as arriving
without the appropriate visa?

Yes and I know some who were deported straight back to the US.

--
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...


Personally I dont believe journalists should receive
special treatment.

Special treatment like requiring a visa nobody else needs?


If I go to the USA to work I need a visa, so does a journalist.

If I go there on holiday I dont need one, neither does a journalist.

The relevant text on the US Embassy site reads

"Visitors to the United States who report on news events and who are
engaged in activities to gather information for the media should obtain an
I-visa."


Keith

Miguel Cruz wrote:

Keith Willshaw wrote:

wrote:

After his gratuitous and totally unnecessary ritual public humiliation
is this Sunday Times journalist still going to love the USA - or will
personal experience make him hate America?

He ought to learn the lesson that laws apply to journalists
too. A great many of that breed seem to consider themselves
above such matters as legality.

Personally I dont believe journalists should receive
special treatment.


Special treatment like requiring a visa nobody else needs?


Other journalist have gotten US journalist (I) visas.
No one else but a journalist would need a journalist visa.
If he wanted to come here as an artist, he would need a different visa.
If he wanted to come here as a student, he would need a different visa.
If he wanted to stay over 90 day as a tourist, he would need a visa.
If he was coming from outside of a VWP country, he would need a visa a
tourist for a stay of any length.
If he wanted to visit as a tourist or have attend a business conference,
he could do that without a visa.

Here is a link to the State Dept issuing a cable to offices telling them
to remind journalists that VWP or a B visa was not enough and they need
I Visas. http://www.murthy.com/news/ukdosrem.html

Here it is directly from the US Embassy in London's website
http://www.usembassy.org.uk/ukpa18dec03.html

We can argue all day about whether or not people "should" need a visa of
whatever type to do whatever it is they want to do, but the law is quite
clear and it wasn't a deeply hidden secret, Journalists need I visas to
enter the US. As of August 1, 2003, this requires going to the Embassy
in London to obtain. The UK, homeland of the author in the story, also
has visas for visiting journalists.

Here is an interesting article about the British goverment denying visa
to 3 African journalists invited by British Airways.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200403290346.html


From the official British Government in the US website we have the
requirements for journalist to obtain a visa.
http://www.britainusa.com/visas/othe...5&Other_ID=329

And the fee links shows the fee as $143... So, it seems that even the UK
officially requires a formal application by journalists. I have found no
information indicating this requirement does not apply to American
journalists.

Permit Free Employment:
Including: Business & Self-Employed, Investors, Innovator, Overseas
Domestic Workers, Religious Purposes, Representatives of Overseas
Newspapers, News Agencies & Broadcasting Organisations, Sole
Representatives, United Kingdom Ancestry-Employment, Writers, Composers
& Artists. $143.00

Lansbury wrote:

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:28:32 +0200, "Sjoerd"
wrote:


By the way, have you ever heard about an American who was put in prison in a
Western, allied country for minor immigration issues such as arriving
without the appropriate visa?


Yes and I know some who were deported straight back to the US.

And I know of cases where the same was true in the US, but that doesn't
excuse the journalist from having one or being detained for not having
one. Being detained doesn't always mean you are treated to the best jail
cell in the world, nor does it always mean you are free to roam on your
own because they trust you. It was one night of detention and he
complained about everything, even the not being able to have coffee.
Surely, one morning without coffee doesn't rank the US jail up there
with Auschwitz.

Keith Willshaw wrote:

Miguel Cruz wrote:


Personally I dont believe journalists should receive
special treatment.

Special treatment like requiring a visa nobody else needs?


If I go to the USA to work I need a visa, so does a journalist.

You don't need a visa if you qualify under the visa waiver program, and
are not being paid by someone in the US. As an example, if you are
being paid by a foreign company to travel to the US to negotiate a deal,
and qualify under the visa waiver program, you don't need a visa. The
only exception is journalists, and they were previously allowed in the
country under the visa waiver program.

mrtravelkay wrote:

Miguel Cruz wrote:

Special treatment like requiring a visa nobody else needs?

Other journalist have gotten US journalist (I) visas.
No one else but a journalist would need a journalist visa.

And up to recently, journalists were often allowed into the country
under the visa waiver program, without the need for the I Visa.

If he wanted to come here as an artist, he would need a different visa.

If he wasn't being paid by someone in the US, and qualified under the
visa waiver program, he wouldn't require any visa. The only
foreign-paid person from a visa waiver country requiring a visa is a
journalist. That is the special treatment. If he had said he was coming
to the US to interview people as part of a business deal, he wouldn't
have needed any visa.

We can argue all day about whether or not people "should" need a visa of
whatever type to do whatever it is they want to do, but the law is quite
clear and it wasn't a deeply hidden secret, Journalists need I visas to
enter the US. As of August 1, 2003, this requires going to the Embassy
in London to obtain. The UK, homeland of the author in the story, also
has visas for visiting journalists.

Yes, but did he deserve the treatment he received, considering that he
had previously been granted entry under visa waiver, even when it was
known he was a journalist? The law was just as clear for the last ten
years, it's nothing new. What's new is the draconian enforcement of the
law, which was simply glossed over before.

Here is an interesting article about the British goverment denying visa
to 3 African journalists invited by British Airways.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200403290346.html

That article isn't at all germane to the discussion, since they would
have required a visa for any type of visit, and it was determined that
they might not leave again, hence the visa was denied. It didn't matter
that they were journalists or not. Further, they are from Zimbabwe,
which does not have the best of relations with the UK at the moment.

From the official British Government in the US website we have the
requirements for journalist to obtain a visa.
http://www.britainusa.com/visas/othe...5&Other_ID=329

Yes, probably tit-for-tat, like the fingerprinting of US visitors to
Brazil.

"James Robinson" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:

Miguel Cruz wrote:


Personally I dont believe journalists should receive
special treatment.

Special treatment like requiring a visa nobody else needs?


If I go to the USA to work I need a visa, so does a journalist.

You don't need a visa if you qualify under the visa waiver program, and
are not being paid by someone in the US. As an example, if you are
being paid by a foreign company to travel to the US to negotiate a deal,
and qualify under the visa waiver program, you don't need a visa. The
only exception is journalists, and they were previously allowed in the
country under the visa waiver program.

They arent the only exceptions

I work work for the UK branch of a US company.
If I travel to head office for a meeting then the
VWP program is fine.

If I'm travelling to the US to give a training course or for
a short assigment then I need either a B1 or H2B visa.

The rules for the VWP are quite clear

"Participating in commercial business transactions WHICH DO NOT
INVOLVE GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT in the U.S"

It used to be that the INS were happy to let you in under the
VWP for this, not any more.

The rules for journalists are clearly stated on
http://travel.state.gov/vwp.html

Keith

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:14:38 GMT, mrtravelkay wrote:

By the way, have you ever heard about an American who was put in prison in a
Western, allied country for minor immigration issues such as arriving
without the appropriate visa?


Yes and I know some who were deported straight back to the US.

And I know of cases where the same was true in the US, but that doesn't
excuse the journalist from having one or being detained for not having
one. Being detained doesn't always mean you are treated to the best jail
cell in the world, nor does it always mean you are free to roam on your
own because they trust you. It was one night of detention and he
complained about everything, even the not being able to have coffee.
Surely, one morning without coffee doesn't rank the US jail up there
with Auschwitz.

What has your rant got to do with my response saying I have know of US
citizens treated in actually the same way when in breach of visa
conditions. The implication from the original question was that other
countries, or mainly the UK, would not do such a thing. I was pointing
out they do, quite correctly when someone pitches up trying to gin entry
and not complying with the entry requirements.

--
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
om...


After his gratuitous and totally unnecessary ritual public humiliation
is this Sunday Times journalist still going to love the USA - or will
personal experience make him hate America?

He ought to learn the lesson that laws apply to journalists
too. A great many of that breed seem to consider themselves
above such matters as legality.

Personally I dont believe journalists should receive
special treatment.

Keith

I think it appalling that *anyone* should be treated in the way this man
was.