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Times: Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion
Times (London)
November 09, 2004 Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion From Adam LeBor in Budapest BUDAPESTıS historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless against the latest invaders: property developers. Map: http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/pic...,158839,00.jpg The combination of high housing density and a booming property market has triggered a controversial wave of demolitions. Art Nouveau buildings and tree-lined courtyards are being razed to make way for modern residential and office blocks. Empty plots mar the historic streets and squares of Elizabeth Town, as the area is known. Local activists have launched Ovas (Hungarian for ³protect²), a campaign to save the area. Peter Marinov, its spokesman, told The Times: ³Budapestıs Jewish quarter is a unique part of Europeıs heritage. It is rich in religious and cultural roots, and architecturally unique. It is the only surviving Jewish quarter that dates from the 19th century.² Istvan Fenyo, 75, grew up at 29 Wesselenyi Street in Elizabeth Town, and survived the wartime ghetto. He said: ³This whole area brought multiethnicity and colour to Budapest. This was a very diverse Jewish quarter, and it helped to shape the cityıs landscape.² The Jewish quarter was fenced and turned into a ghetto after the Nazis invaded in March 1944. Budapest is still home to one of Europeıs biggest Jewish communities, about 80,000 strong, and many still live in the heart of District VII, the last of Eastern Europeıs Jewish quarters still to boast a substantial Jewish community. Developers and municipal officials say that they have no choice. Many apartments have not been repaired since before the Second World War and would eventually collapse. Ovas has already scored a significant victory. It applied for a temporary preservation order on the whole quarter, which was granted in June. The Jewish quarter is now designated a cultural heritage area and no new demolitions can take place unless they were already agreed before June. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...350517,00.html |
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On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said:
Times (London) November 09, 2004 Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion From Adam LeBor in Budapest BUDAPESTıS historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless against the latest invaders: property developers. Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses while the inhabitants only have moments to flee. Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that. J; -- Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me: http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG |
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Jeremy Henderson wrote:
On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said: Times (London) November 09, 2004 Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion From Adam LeBor in Budapest BUDAPESTıS historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless against the latest invaders: property developers. Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses while the inhabitants only have moments to flee. Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that. Please, Jeremy! While I deplore the actions of the IDF in the occupied territories, I wish people would not identify all Jews with Israel. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED |
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On 2004-11-09 21:12:47 +0100, Padraig Breathnach said:
Jeremy Henderson wrote: On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said: Times (London) November 09, 2004 Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion From Adam LeBor in Budapest BUDAPESTıS historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless against the latest invaders: property developers. Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses while the inhabitants only have moments to flee. Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that. Please, Jeremy! While I deplore the actions of the IDF in the occupied territories, I wish people would not identify all Jews with Israel. Agreed, but my observation is this: there seems to me to be a suggestion that the destruction of an old part of Budapest is somehow worse because it's the Jewish quarter, and that people should respond out of a sense of guilt about the history of that area. Sorry, but no. And by the way, I'm not just referring to the occupied territories - how many Jews are shedding a tear for, to take an example, the Armenian Christian community in Jerusalem? Maybe I'm putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, but what happened in the 1930's and 40's happened. I'm not responsible for it. J; -- Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me: http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG |
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On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:19:00 +0100, Jeremy Henderson
wrote: On 2004-11-09 21:12:47 +0100, Padraig Breathnach said: Jeremy Henderson wrote: On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said: Times (London) November 09, 2004 Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion From Adam LeBor in Budapest BUDAPESTıS historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless against the latest invaders: property developers. Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses while the inhabitants only have moments to flee. Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that. Please, Jeremy! While I deplore the actions of the IDF in the occupied territories, I wish people would not identify all Jews with Israel. Agreed, but my observation is this: there seems to me to be a suggestion that the destruction of an old part of Budapest is somehow worse because it's the Jewish quarter, and that people should respond out of a sense of guilt about the history of that area. Sorry, but no. And by the way, I'm not just referring to the occupied territories - how many Jews are shedding a tear for, to take an example, the Armenian Christian community in Jerusalem? Maybe I'm putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, but what happened in the 1930's and 40's happened. I'm not responsible for it. I certainly here your point of view on this one. It does seem that everytime something negative happens to anything or anyone Jewish, the whole holocaust thing is immediately dragged out again. People either forget, or don't know, that many similar attrocities, some worse, were occuring around the same time in history, and they have been largely forgotten. In addition, it seems that many people who ask "Could it happen again?" assume that means in Europe, to the Jews, and in a highly organised fashion. Of course it could happen again, and it has, and it is, but people can't see the forest for the trees. --- DFM |
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Jeremy Henderson wrote in message ...
Agreed, but my observation is this: there seems to me to be a suggestion that the destruction of an old part of Budapest is somehow worse because it's the Jewish quarter, and that people should respond out of a sense of guilt about the history of that area. Sorry, but no. It is not "guilt" at all -- I don't think most Hungarians feel such guilt. Rather it is realism: Jews who want to see the lost history of the Jews, as documented in Roman Vishniac's wonderful photos flock to the old European centers of Jewry and spend tourist dollars. So do Germans, some of whom may actually have read Bernt Engelmann's book "Germany Without Jews" and regret the loss. If you go, say, to Bialystok, Poland, once a thriving center of Jewry (and the source of the bialy bread roll, now found mainly in Brooklyn) you will see firsthand what it means to bulldoze a (former) Jewish community, concrete over it, and make it a culture-less "Socialist paradise". In London, there is irony that some 1960s buildings (including Clore House, 17 Russell Square) have been given protected status. Because they are, in general, so ugly that they are in danger of demolition -- but they represent an era and we, as people, have the right to our past. And by the way, I'm not just referring to the occupied territories - how many Jews are shedding a tear for, to take an example, the Armenian Christian community in Jerusalem? Huh? Christians are leaving the Middle East and changing the demographics of Palestine and Lebanon, and probably other places as well. But you seem to have another agenda. Turkey was nasty to its Christians forever, and particularly vicious in its expulsion of ethnic Greeks. And Greece has reciprocated; indeed Greeks have reciprocated, bringing on the Cyprus tragedy. But this isn't a history site, it's a discussion place for European tourism. If you want to get into polemic, go to soc.culture.greek where you can blow off all the steam you want. It's best to use an anonymizer though, or some Greek may come to your home and blow you up. |
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Deep Frayed Morgues wrote in message . ..
I certainly here your point of view on this one. It does seem that everytime something negative happens to anything or anyone Jewish, the whole holocaust thing is immediately dragged out again. People either forget, or don't know, that many similar attrocities, some worse, were occuring around the same time in history, and they have been largely forgotten. Actually the issue is even more sensitive when it concerns indigenous peoples. The whole issue of lost civilizations (and lost languages, lost cultures) is indeed sensitive in Europe, as elsewhere. For one thing, modern consumer society is attractive, and the tug between the old culture (and preserving it) and the new economy is very strong. In the USA, the Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted to prevent Native American babies from being adopted out of the tribe "in the interest of the child". In other words: the society (or culture) of origin has rights too. Where all (or most of) the members of a group have been killed, and not simply elected to abandon the culture, the issue takes on further sensitivity. As for Jews: the fact that many survivors have done well economically and wish to recapture, or at least see, their historical culture; the fact that so many are articulate and politically aware, makes them "noisy". In their own way, Armenians, Muslims, Blacks and other self-defined groups do the same. To the extent that they are able. You're not going to resolve this with a sound bite. A bit of Googling on European "minority cultures" would tell you a lot more that's useful. In parts of Europe, the issue is cultural history and environmental preservation vs. corruption. Just as George W. Bush's constituency is happy to steamroll the environment of the spotted owl and to tar over all of Alaska to get at a few barrels of oil, there are corrupt politicians in Europe who will commit the same or similar crimes. |
#8
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Deep Frayed Morgues wrote in message . ..
I certainly here your point of view on this one. It does seem that everytime something negative happens to anything or anyone Jewish, the whole holocaust thing is immediately dragged out again. People either forget, or don't know, that many similar attrocities, some worse, were occuring around the same time in history, and they have been largely forgotten. Actually the issue is even more sensitive when it concerns indigenous peoples. The whole issue of lost civilizations (and lost languages, lost cultures) is indeed sensitive in Europe, as elsewhere. For one thing, modern consumer society is attractive, and the tug between the old culture (and preserving it) and the new economy is very strong. In the USA, the Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted to prevent Native American babies from being adopted out of the tribe "in the interest of the child". In other words: the society (or culture) of origin has rights too. Where all (or most of) the members of a group have been killed, and not simply elected to abandon the culture, the issue takes on further sensitivity. As for Jews: the fact that many survivors have done well economically and wish to recapture, or at least see, their historical culture; the fact that so many are articulate and politically aware, makes them "noisy". In their own way, Armenians, Muslims, Blacks and other self-defined groups do the same. To the extent that they are able. You're not going to resolve this with a sound bite. A bit of Googling on European "minority cultures" would tell you a lot more that's useful. In parts of Europe, the issue is cultural history and environmental preservation vs. corruption. Just as George W. Bush's constituency is happy to steamroll the environment of the spotted owl and to tar over all of Alaska to get at a few barrels of oil, there are corrupt politicians in Europe who will commit the same or similar crimes. |
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