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#1
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A question or two from a newbie here
Hello all,
This post was partly prompted by a recent observation by a regular here that the activity in this group has diminished in recent years. As a newbie to this group (but not Usenet) I would comment that lack of activity might be a blessing of sorts, considering the piles of posted rants, flames, and idiocy that can be found in more active groups. Count your blessings :-). But now allow me to contribute to this group in a minor way by asking a few questions about our impending trip to South Africa. Any responses will be greatly appreciated. You seem like nice people here and this trip has raised some interesting (serious) questions. My wife and I were about to take a trip to Cape Town (for two weeks), and then to Kruger Nat'l Park (for another week) before coming back to our home in the US. This will be our first trip to South Africa, but we are veteran travelers (e.g. spent the summer last year in Europe, have been to the Far East, and spent a year driving through South America). To keep this particular post short, let me limit this to just one initial topic: Getting to (and into) South Africa. The Ticket Dilemma After doing the usual fight cost comparisons, we bought our RT tickets through Orbitz -- which uses South African Airways to and from Atlanta. The price was quite good, but the tickets were *non refundable*. We have done this before, with good results (and low prices), but have run into a large problem with this booking. We had researched the entry requirements to South Africa and had a good grasp (we thought) of what was required to get into the country as an American tourist (only a passport). They want to increase tourism. Then we ran into a caution in one of the books ordered prior to booking the flight (which arrived afterward) that pointed out that South African Immigration was tight, and that one of the things they check for upon entry was an exact match between the name on the ticket (required to prove exit from the country) and the name on the passport. (Problem!!) Unfortunately my given first name is one I have always hated and therefore have never used -- except when absolutely required (passports and drivers license). My credit cards carry either my nickname (a shorted version of my real first name) or simply the initials of my first and/or middle name. Hence my credit card (to which this trip was charged, and had to match the booking info) carried only my initialed first name-- which was carried forward to the booking and appeared as such on the tickets. This has never been an issue in past trips, but has become one on this trip. Soooo, I called South African Airways and asked if this was a problem. The response was "Oh yes, they won't let you into the country at Jo'burg unless the name on the return ticket exactly matches the name on the passport." They said to call Orbitz and have the ticket reissued with my full legal first name spelled out. I called, but Orbitz flatly refused! They said they don't ever change the names on a ticket (they claim they airlines don't allow them to) and that since the ticket was non-refundable I had no way out of this problem. (Never mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.") So now I have a ticket with a name that doesn't match the name on my passport. My question here is does anyone here know what might happen if I proceed with this trip? Will they really ask to SEE the return ticket? (No one in our past travels ever has.) Would they notice that the names doesn't exactly match? Would they care? Should I feel like gambling on they possibility that they might deny me entry and put me on the next plane back to the USA (leaving my wife alone in South Africa)? Or should I scrap the whole trip and take the loss? Any thoughts? TIA. Caveat |
#2
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A question or two from a newbie here
They said they don't ever change the names on a
ticket (they claim they airlines don't allow them to) and that since the ticket was non-refundable I had no way out of this problem. (Never mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.") I am in South Africa, and phoned SAA for you here in SA. Apparently if the conditions of the ticket state that it is 100% non-refundable, then it looks like you might have to have the ticket re-issued and pay for a new ticket. I suggest that you have a careful look at the terms and conditions of that ticket and re-approach Orbitz. If there is no way you can come right with the ticket, I would suggest as a last resort, to travel on that current ticket. Many South Africans know that Americans abbreviate their names (like N Paul Todd, where his first name is Neil) and you might get away with it. Another angle of looking at it is if you have travel insurance, your insurance company might either pay for the re-issue of the ticket, or alternatively, if you have cancellation insurance, then cancel the booking in it's entirety and then claim back on the insurance. I hope you come right, and please keep us posted. Rodger |
#3
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A question or two from a newbie here
"Rodger" wrote:
I am in South Africa, and phoned SAA for you here in SA. Apparently if the conditions of the ticket state that it is 100% non-refundable, then it looks like you might have to have the ticket re-issued and pay for a new ticket. I suggest that you have a careful look at the terms and conditions of that ticket and re-approach Orbitz. If there is no way you can come right with the ticket, I would suggest as a last resort, to travel on that current ticket. Many South Africans know that Americans abbreviate their names (like N Paul Todd, where his first name is Neil) and you might get away with it. Another angle of looking at it is if you have travel insurance, your insurance company might either pay for the re-issue of the ticket, or alternatively, if you have cancellation insurance, then cancel the booking in it's entirety and then claim back on the insurance. Thanks for the quick response, Rodger, as well as the call to South African Airways there. That was very nice of you. Unfortunately, we did not get trip insurance. That is still an option but to get insurance for a cancellation *for any reason* would cost about $850 USD. The Orbitz Terms and Conditions was obviously written by their lawyers to maximize Orbitz profits. Since this was technically my fault (I gave them the name they used) they are off the hook. And they have zero interest in customer relations, obviously. We even explored your suggestion of buying another ticket, but they are no longer available because the flight is full (actually overbooked), and the price has doubled for other flights in that time period. So at this point I'm inclined to go ahead with the trip and hope for the best. Not a very comfortable position to be in... Live and learn. Caveat |
#4
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A question or two from a newbie here
Hi there,
My suggestion is that you don't cancel the trip. If they do actually check the ticket and see a discrepancy in your name, they will also look at other aspects. If I were you I would carry two things: 1) A letter from your employer (if you have one) stating that you are an employee in good standing, and that you will be returi=ning to your place of employment after your three week holiday. 2) A letter certified by your local police station (or better still, written or confirmed by the South African Embassy nearest your home) that your given name and your used name are different, but that both are applicable. Immigration officials weigh up each case by certain criteria. If you're a middle-aged businessmantravelling with your wife, and you have a company and family in Europe then they will see you as far less of an illegal immigration risk than, for example, a Somali citizen with only one small piece of luggage, no tourist reservations, no job etc. I'm fairly certain that, with the two letters as above, you will be able to explain your way through immigration without too much difficulty. BTW it is the responsibility of the carrier to ensure that you have all the necessary requirements for entry into the country of destination. That means that SAA is laible to return you to the US if immigration refuses you entry. Are you going to be in Johannesburg at all? If so, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to make some suggestions about things to do/see while you're here. Regards, Marc - Joahannesburg |
#5
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A question or two from a newbie here
I have visited South Africa 4 times since 1999, most recently in July 2004
and Aug 2005. I'm an Australian and I have never been asked for my flight ticket or been asked any questions. The Immigration stuff has been over in less than a minute every time. Maybe they treat Americans differently, but the info you were given by SAA certainly doesn't match my experiences with entering Sth Africa. |
#6
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A question or two from a newbie here
I couldn't answer from experience previously, but Michael has
confirmed that it is unlikely that they will ask to look at your ticket. It's only if you're an illegal immigration risk that they might get difficult. Rgds, Marc On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:51:11 +1100, "Michael Kilpatrick" wrote: I have visited South Africa 4 times since 1999, most recently in July 2004 and Aug 2005. I'm an Australian and I have never been asked for my flight ticket or been asked any questions. The Immigration stuff has been over in less than a minute every time. Maybe they treat Americans differently, but the info you were given by SAA certainly doesn't match my experiences with entering Sth Africa. |
#7
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A question or two from a newbie here
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:12:08 -0700, Caveat wrote:
They said to call Orbitz and have the ticket reissued with my full legal first name spelled out. I called, but Orbitz flatly refused! They said they don't ever change the names on a ticket (they claim they airlines don't allow them to) and that since the ticket was non-refundable I had no way out of this problem. (Never mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.") This is really hard to believe! In your situation I would probably try everything I could to make Orbitz change their ways. Of course the airlines don't change a non-refundable ticket to a different name and person, but in your case that's not what you want them to do. You only want them to correct an oversight. I'd try hard and work my way up the Orbitz chain of command. There is always a chance that you find somebody reasonable. Hans-Georg -- No mail, please. |
#8
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A question or two from a newbie here
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:51:11 +1100, "Michael Kilpatrick"
wrote: I have visited South Africa 4 times since 1999, most recently in July 2004 and Aug 2005. I'm an Australian and I have never been asked for my flight ticket or been asked any questions. The Immigration stuff has been over in less than a minute every time. Maybe they treat Americans differently, but the info you were given by SAA certainly doesn't match my experiences with entering Sth Africa. Marc Lurie wrote: I couldn't answer from experience previously, but Michael has confirmed that it is unlikely that they will ask to look at your ticket. It's only if you're an illegal immigration risk that they might get difficult. Many thanks both to you, Marc, and to Michael, for the encouraging posts. I have trouble understanding how the authorities might think that I might be an illegal immigration risk -- I am old and retired, and traveling with my wife, and we are both US citizens of Northern European extraction. But officials with power are known to do illogical things sometimes. They have their rules and procedures. We didn't plan to spend any time in Jo'burg (but thanks for the offer of suggestions for that city) as we have paid flight tickets on to Cape Town, and confirmed paid reservations at a B&B on False Bay near Capetown. We also have tickets from Cape Town to Nelspruit (near Kruger National Park), a paid reservation at a lodge there, with paid return tickets back Joburg, then to the United States. That doesn't sound like an illegal immigration risk to me. But what do I know... Perhaps the airline is being overly cautious here, and your note about their responsibility to insure that arriving passengers have the required documentation probably explains that. SAA has actually been quite reasonable to talk with so far -- unlike the US airlines who route their calls to India; or Orbitz, which makes incoming customer service calls slow and difficult (and when you do get through they are quite nasty and unhelpful, in my experience). I'll try calling SAA again after the Thanksgiving holiday rush here. They said that it was the responsibility of the travel agent to correct a ticket error, but since that isn't possible I will try the airline again. The letter-from-the-police-department suggestion is another possibility *if* SAA will let me flow with an abbreviation of my first name on their ticket. (It just seems odd that this issue never came up in our past travels through 30 or so countries.) Again, thanks for the input. On the assumption that I will be admitted upon arrival in South Africa, that now leaves us with a second question which I'll pose in a new thread. Nice group you have here. Regards, Caveat |
#9
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A question or two from a newbie here
Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
(Never mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.") This is really hard to believe! Yes, I found the matter more than a bit incredulous, too. In your situation I would probably try everything I could to make Orbitz change their ways. Perhaps posting what happened to me here might help? Of course the airlines don't change a non-refundable ticket to a different name and person, but in your case that's not what you want them to do. You are correct, of course. But the distinction that you make seems to be beyond their comprehension (probably because they don't want to recognize it for cost reasons). A name change is a name change. You only want them to correct an oversight. Yes, but as they untactfully pointed out, it was MY oversight, for which I am solely responsible and for which I must suffer the consequences. No sympathy from these folks. And no help. I'd try hard and work my way up the Orbitz chain of command. There is always a chance that you find somebody reasonable. I was already three layers up their Customer Relations hierarchy when I got the final "no." When I asked who else I could appeal to, I was told "no one." Sounds pretty final to me. |
#10
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A question or two from a newbie here
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:03:06 -0700, Caveat wrote:
I was already three layers up their Customer Relations hierarchy when I got the final "no." When I asked who else I could appeal to, I was told "no one." Sounds pretty final to me. Still hard to believe. Anyway, in your situation I would fly. I can also not imagine that they actually send you back. If they do, at least you have an incredible story to tell. (:-) Hans-Georg -- No mail, please. |
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