Heads up - Panorama tonight, BBC1 8.30pm

In message
, at
10:45:22 on Wed, 14 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
Both Ryanair and Virgin Trains are absolutely ruthless in punishing
minor mistakes with punishments out of all proportion.

....

Other companies may be the same.

Most, if not all, of the long distance ToCs are like that now. eg GNER
were famous for it, and NXEC carried on the tradition. MML were pretty
stringent, but now Stagecoach have the franchise under the EMT banner,
the screws have been really tightened.

One of the worst offences is threatening to sell only "Open Returns"
even when off-peak; and without any railcard discounts. I suspect they
should sell an Open Single if requested (then you can use the other half
of the ticket, you already have, to return on the "correct" train this
time).

Or if you are time-rich/money-poor simply get an on-train 'penalty'
ticket to the next station, then get off and buy a discounted off-peak
ticket there, catching the following train to your actual destination. I
bet they never suggest that to people!
--
Roland Perry

Recliner wrote:
Or is it more of a case of segregating
noisy holiday makers from people who want to work on the train?

Yes.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:52:19 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

The programme gave two fairly explicit examples. The booking fees, which
are far beyond the actual cost of the transaction

The "mugging" referred to above was about unexpected, or "surprise"
charges. While the credit card fees are somewhat high (it's necessary to
factor in all the costs when buying these fares) they are not
unexpected, nor are they a surprise.

Yes they are. The "headline" fares (49p etc) don't include them, and
many people don't find out about them until they get to the booking
screen. Most reputable companies include any payment handling costs
(incl. cash handling) in their up-front prices.

Indeed, the very way we are
discussing them here indicates how familiar everyone is with them.

Only because they're notorious for being an unexpected, excessive
charge!

I guess if you mug someone in an area notorious for muggings, it
ceases to be one because they should have heard about it in advance
and expected it, and becomes a "walking down the street fee" instead?

In message , at 13:03:24 on
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, asdf remarked:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:52:19 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

The programme gave two fairly explicit examples. The booking fees, which
are far beyond the actual cost of the transaction

The "mugging" referred to above was about unexpected, or "surprise"
charges. While the credit card fees are somewhat high (it's necessary to
factor in all the costs when buying these fares) they are not
unexpected, nor are they a surprise.

Yes they are. The "headline" fares (49p etc) don't include them, and
many people don't find out about them until they get to the booking
screen.

Actually, some of the fees are currently waived for the "promotional
fares", so be careful what you wish for.

Most reputable companies include any payment handling costs
(incl. cash handling) in their up-front prices.

In that case there are lots of disreputable companies around.

Indeed, the very way we are
discussing them here indicates how familiar everyone is with them.

Only because they're notorious for being an unexpected, excessive
charge!

They are notorious enough, that claiming you've never heard of them
doesn't wash. Ever thought that all the tales circulating about Ryanair
actually work to their *advantage*? They were prosecuted by Essex
Trading Standards, but got off on the grounds that "everyone has heard
the stories about us, and therefore expects extra fees".

I guess if you mug someone in an area notorious for muggings, it
ceases to be one because they should have heard about it in advance
and expected it, and becomes a "walking down the street fee" instead?

Frankly, yes.
--
Roland Perry

On 15 Oct, 13:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:03:24 on
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, asdf remarked:

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:52:19 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

The programme gave two fairly explicit examples. The booking fees, which
are far beyond the actual cost of the transaction

The "mugging" referred to above was about unexpected, or "surprise"
charges. While the credit card fees are somewhat high (it's necessary to
factor in all the costs when buying these fares) they are not
unexpected, nor are they a surprise.

Yes they are. The "headline" fares (49p etc) don't include them, and
many people don't find out about them until they get to the booking
screen.

Actually, some of the fees are currently waived for the "promotional
fares", so be careful what you wish for.

Most reputable companies include any payment handling costs
(incl. cash handling) in their up-front prices.

In that case there are lots of disreputable companies around.

Indeed, the very way we are
discussing them here indicates how familiar everyone is with them.

Only because they're notorious for being an unexpected, excessive
charge!

They are notorious enough, that claiming you've never heard of them
doesn't wash. Ever thought that all the tales circulating about Ryanair
actually work to their *advantage*? They were prosecuted by Essex
Trading Standards, but got off on the grounds that "everyone has heard
the stories about us, and therefore expects extra fees".

I guess if you mug someone in an area notorious for muggings, it
ceases to be one because they should have heard about it in advance
and expected it, and becomes a "walking down the street fee" instead?

Frankly, yes.
--
Roland Perry

So they've created such a lawless situation that anything goes. That
seems to me to be a Bad Thing and a situation that should be
rectified, not condoned.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:06:20 +0100, William Black
wrote:

Check-in time these days is a lot longer than it was because of security
constraints.

Au contraire. It's much *shorter* because of online check-in.

When not checking in a bag (most of the time), I usually aim for an
hour before at Luton, which is enough time while not keeping me
standing around for particularly long.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:24:37 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

If I'm leaving mid-afternoon from EMA, the place is deserted, and you
can even check in at a desk, drop a bag, do security, all in ten
minutes. It used to be like that all day long at BHX T2, but I
understand things have change now that Ryanair are filling it with pax.
But the classic carriers have gone back to T1 now.

It's a pity FR were allowed to trash T2. It was a nice, relaxing
business-oriented terminal.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:11:34 -0700 (PDT), "Hobo Humpin' Slobo Babe"
wrote:

a Ryanair hand job....I wonder how much they would charge for that ;-)

You do, presumably, recall O'Leary's comments on the business class of
his proposed transatlantic service?

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....=gen-en-200608

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:47:49 GMT, pete wrote:

The programme gave two fairly explicit examples. The booking fees, which
are far beyond the actual cost of the transaction

Not exactly a "mugging", though. Before you purchase your ticket, the
full price is made clear. And they have a single page on their
website listing all the fees.

and the "penalty" they
impose if you forget to print or lose your boarding pass. Again, the
charge is vastly in excess of the cost of the service.

If you forget your train ticket, you'll have to buy a new one. That
could be far more than 40 quid.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message
, at
08:56:29 on Thu, 15 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
I guess if you mug someone in an area notorious for muggings, it
ceases to be one because they should have heard about it in advance
and expected it, and becomes a "walking down the street fee" instead?

Frankly, yes.

So they've created such a lawless situation that anything goes. That
seems to me to be a Bad Thing and a situation that should be
rectified, not condoned.

Combating street crime is a long standing and difficult issue.
--
Roland Perry