Do you think the situation in Iraq was worth going to war over?"60% of Americans say "No

John Rennie wrote:
Faceless man wrote:


"hls" wrote in message
...

"Faceless Man" wrote in message
Did Iraq have or
seek to obtain weapons of mass destruction? Yes. Those are the facts

And they got them...from America.
We fed some weapons to Iraq/Saddam during the war with Iran. We hated
Iran so badly that we tried to influence the outcome by arming
Hussein. That is history.

We did the same to the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan to get Russia kicked
out.

We came to regret it.

I guess it's ok when America supplies a tyrannical dictator with WMD's
but not when other countries do. Or was Saddam only a tyrannical
dictator when he was America's enemy?


To be strictly fair America supplied Saddam with weapons but not with
WMD's.

What weapons? You'll find a very short list of dual use materials. If we
look at how many weapons America supplied to Iran in that war, it was
probably more.



It appears that the chemicals used to kill Iranians and Kurds
were manufactured by what was then a quite rich country.

Saddam scoured the world looking for all of various chemicals it needed
for its weapons.



However
there is no doubt that Iraq received whole hearted support from
America which together with the horrifying use of chemicals enabled
them to win an eight year war which almost bankrupted themselves.

Saddam didn't win that war. Saddam never won any wars. He was able to
call it a draw with Iran after massive help from Arab governments and
the West. There are people today who claim that Saddam was a counter to
Iran after the 1991 Gulf War. Those people should recognize that he was
also a counter to Iran before that.


The wholesale pillaging of Kuwait in the short time that the Iraqis
were there suggest that there was an urgent need of supplies in
Iraq.

It suggests that the people involved were rat *******s.



What is still interesting is whether Saddam thought he had
received a 'go ahead' from the American ambassador for the invasion of
Kuwait.

Aziz said before clamming up that that was never a consideration, they
felt that Iraq would go to war so why not invade Kuwait or some crazy
thing like that. The logic of Saddam's policies is difficult to
understand but to buy Iraqi propaganda, especially something so stupid,
on its face is ridiculous.

Even if Iraq was mistaken, Bush Sr gave Saddam how many chances to get
out of Kuwait before kicking him out? A bloody damn lot.


I'm sure he didn't but that doesn't mean that Saddam
didn't think so. He had after all worked closely with the CIA
in the past and he had fought and won a war against America/Israel's
prime enemy. Perhaps he considered Kuwait to be his prize?

As I pointed out, he didn't win the war against Iran. He was mad at
Kuwait for its insistence that he pay back his war debt to them. There
are major oil fields and a disputed border between the two countries and
this certainly inflamed tensions.

On Aug 27, 5:29*pm, PJ Himselff wrote:
On Aug 27, 4:57 am, The Idiot Evleth unwisely
wrote to usenet:

n a USA TODAY Poll, 60% of Americans say "No," when asked "Do you think the
situation in Iraq was worth going to war over?" Similar majorities either
felt that the war did not make the USA safer from terrorism or made no
difference. The same was said of whether the political situation in the
Middle East is more stable.

As usual Evleth pastes poll results he likes but then will castigate
the wisdom of Americans polled taking positions the idiot Evleth
doesn't agree with.

A more interesting poll would be on how American really feel about the
USofA going to war with Germany in WWII.

http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/chamberl.html
.
How Franklin Roosevelt Lied America Into War
by William Henry Chamberlin (no right wing zealot by any stretch)

Excerpt:

"..A president who cannot entrust the people with the truth betrays a
certain lack of faith in the basic tenets of democracy. But because
the masses are notoriously shortsighted and generally cannot see
danger until it is at their throats, our statesmen are forced to
deceive them into an awareness of their own long-run interests. This
is clearly what Roosevelt had to do. ..".

Read "The Fifties" by David Halberstam, also no right wing zealot by
any
stretch. .

On page 9 Halberstam says in describing the political scenario in
1948

"..many thought Roosevelt had dragged us "into the wrong war: wrong
allies, wrong enemies, wrong outcome". A peace that permitted Soviet
hegemony over Eastern Europe was unacceptable to many Americans.."

http://sangha.net/messengers/roosevelt.htm

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT MEMORIAL

"Lend-Lease

Following his reelection in 1940, President Roosevelt moved ahead
with
the dual policy of building up U.S. defenses while giving assistance
to
those countries resisting the aggression of Germany, Italy, and
Japan.
The major legislation was the Lend-Lease Act of March 1941, passed
over
the bitter opposition of the isolationists in Congress and their
national organization, the America First Committee. The Lend-Lease
Act
authorized the president to transfer to victims of aggression such
military equipment (a term interpreted to include food and clothing)
as
could be produced in the United States and acquired by the
government.
This act, which was destined to be extended for the length of World
War
II, began with an appropriation of $7 billion. It was an emphatic
announcement of support for the hard-pressed British. When Germany
attacked the USSR in June 1941 and British Prime Minister Winston
Churchill welcomed the Soviets as allies, Roosevelt extended the
privileges of lend-lease to the USSR. Thus, the United States was
virtually at war in the spring and summer of 1941, sending aid to
Britain and the USSR and even patrolling the Atlantic Ocean with the
U.S. Navy."

Former Congresswoman Clare Boothe Luce found the right expression
when
she charged Roosevelt with having lied us into war: "....Franklin
Roosevelt repeatedly deceived the American people during the period
before Pearl Harbor ... "

AND FROM THE "CINDY SHEEHAN", JOHN MURTHA, JANE FONDA OF HIS DAY,
JOSEPH KENNEDY NOT ONLY
ROOSEVELT'S AMBASSADOR TO THE UK BUT ALSO THE FATHER OF PRESIDENT
JOHN
F. KENNEDY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND SENATOR
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, AND THE FORMER SENATOR FROM MA EDWARD M. KENNEDY.

'Harry, (Truman) what the hell are you doing campaigning for that
crippled son-of-a-bitch that killed my son Joe?' [Joseph P.] Kennedy
said, referring to his oldest son, who had died in the war. Kennedy
went on, saying Roosevelt had caused the war. Truman, by his later
account,..."
-- "Truman," by David McCullough, Page 328

Of course for Leftism WWII is uniquely described as a "good war" but
only because we saved the asses of their beloved Bolsheviks in the
process.

In 1963, as the Soviet General Zhukov stated :

"It is now said that the allies never helped us........ However, one
cannot deny that
the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not
have formed our
reserves and could not have continued the war." "And today it seems
as though we had all this ourselves in abundance".

(From the Journal of Slavic Military Studies, Vol. 7, No. 3, Sept.
1994, pp567-586

no WMD found.....LOL

hohoho

"Zulus Vulva" a écrit dans le message de groupe
de discussion :
...
On Aug 27, 5:29 pm, PJ Himselff wrote:
On Aug 27, 4:57 am, The Idiot Evleth unwisely
wrote to usenet:

n a USA TODAY Poll, 60% of Americans say "No," when asked "Do you think
the
situation in Iraq was worth going to war over?" Similar majorities
either
felt that the war did not make the USA safer from terrorism or made no
difference. The same was said of whether the political situation in the
Middle East is more stable.

As usual Evleth pastes poll results he likes but then will castigate
the wisdom of Americans polled taking positions the idiot Evleth
doesn't agree with.

A more interesting poll would be on how American really feel about the
USofA going to war with Germany in WWII.

http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/chamberl.html
.
How Franklin Roosevelt Lied America Into War
by William Henry Chamberlin (no right wing zealot by any stretch)

Excerpt:

"..A president who cannot entrust the people with the truth betrays a
certain lack of faith in the basic tenets of democracy. But because
the masses are notoriously shortsighted and generally cannot see
danger until it is at their throats, our statesmen are forced to
deceive them into an awareness of their own long-run interests. This
is clearly what Roosevelt had to do. ..".

Read "The Fifties" by David Halberstam, also no right wing zealot by
any
stretch. .

On page 9 Halberstam says in describing the political scenario in
1948

"..many thought Roosevelt had dragged us "into the wrong war: wrong
allies, wrong enemies, wrong outcome". A peace that permitted Soviet
hegemony over Eastern Europe was unacceptable to many Americans.."

http://sangha.net/messengers/roosevelt.htm

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT MEMORIAL

"Lend-Lease

Following his reelection in 1940, President Roosevelt moved ahead
with
the dual policy of building up U.S. defenses while giving assistance
to
those countries resisting the aggression of Germany, Italy, and
Japan.
The major legislation was the Lend-Lease Act of March 1941, passed
over
the bitter opposition of the isolationists in Congress and their
national organization, the America First Committee. The Lend-Lease
Act
authorized the president to transfer to victims of aggression such
military equipment (a term interpreted to include food and clothing)
as
could be produced in the United States and acquired by the
government.
This act, which was destined to be extended for the length of World
War
II, began with an appropriation of $7 billion. It was an emphatic
announcement of support for the hard-pressed British. When Germany
attacked the USSR in June 1941 and British Prime Minister Winston
Churchill welcomed the Soviets as allies, Roosevelt extended the
privileges of lend-lease to the USSR. Thus, the United States was
virtually at war in the spring and summer of 1941, sending aid to
Britain and the USSR and even patrolling the Atlantic Ocean with the
U.S. Navy."

Former Congresswoman Clare Boothe Luce found the right expression
when
she charged Roosevelt with having lied us into war: "....Franklin
Roosevelt repeatedly deceived the American people during the period
before Pearl Harbor ... "

AND FROM THE "CINDY SHEEHAN", JOHN MURTHA, JANE FONDA OF HIS DAY,
JOSEPH KENNEDY NOT ONLY
ROOSEVELT'S AMBASSADOR TO THE UK BUT ALSO THE FATHER OF PRESIDENT
JOHN
F. KENNEDY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND SENATOR
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, AND THE FORMER SENATOR FROM MA EDWARD M. KENNEDY.

'Harry, (Truman) what the hell are you doing campaigning for that
crippled son-of-a-bitch that killed my son Joe?' [Joseph P.] Kennedy
said, referring to his oldest son, who had died in the war. Kennedy
went on, saying Roosevelt had caused the war. Truman, by his later
account,..."
-- "Truman," by David McCullough, Page 328

Of course for Leftism WWII is uniquely described as a "good war" but
only because we saved the asses of their beloved Bolsheviks in the
process.

In 1963, as the Soviet General Zhukov stated :

"It is now said that the allies never helped us........ However, one
cannot deny that
the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not
have formed our
reserves and could not have continued the war." "And today it seems
as though we had all this ourselves in abundance".

(From the Journal of Slavic Military Studies, Vol. 7, No. 3, Sept.
1994, pp567-586

no WMD found.....LOL

On Sep 2, 10:01*pm, "Runge 124" wrote:
hohoho

"Zulus Vulva" a écrit dans le message de groupe
de discussion :
...







On Aug 27, 5:29 pm, PJ Himselff wrote:
On Aug 27, 4:57 am, The Idiot Evleth unwisely
wrote to usenet:

n a USA TODAY Poll, 60% of Americans say "No," when asked "Do you think
the
situation in Iraq was worth going to war over?" Similar majorities
either
felt that the war did not make the USA safer from terrorism or made no
difference. The same was said of whether the political situation in the
Middle East is more stable.

As usual Evleth pastes poll results he likes but then will castigate
the wisdom of Americans polled taking positions the idiot Evleth
doesn't agree with.

A more interesting poll would be on how American really feel about the
USofA going to war with Germany in WWII.

http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/chamberl.html
.
How Franklin Roosevelt Lied America Into War
by William Henry Chamberlin (no right wing zealot by any stretch)

Excerpt:

"..A president who cannot entrust the people with the truth betrays a
certain lack of faith in the basic tenets of democracy. But because
the masses are notoriously shortsighted and generally cannot see
danger until it is at their throats, our statesmen are forced to
deceive them into an awareness of their own long-run interests. This
is clearly what Roosevelt had to do. ..".

Read "The Fifties" by David Halberstam, also no right wing zealot by
any
stretch. .

On page 9 Halberstam says in describing the political scenario in
1948

"..many thought Roosevelt had dragged us "into the wrong war: wrong
allies, wrong enemies, wrong outcome". A peace that permitted Soviet
hegemony over Eastern Europe was unacceptable to many Americans.."

http://sangha.net/messengers/roosevelt.htm

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT MEMORIAL

"Lend-Lease

Following his reelection in 1940, President Roosevelt moved ahead
with
the dual policy of building up U.S. defenses while giving assistance
to
those countries resisting the aggression of Germany, Italy, and
Japan.
The major legislation was the Lend-Lease Act of March 1941, passed
over
the bitter opposition of the isolationists in Congress and their
national organization, the America First Committee. The Lend-Lease
Act
authorized the president to transfer to victims of aggression such
military equipment (a term interpreted to include food and clothing)
as
could be produced in the United States and acquired by the
government.
This act, which was destined to be extended for the length of World
War
II, began with an appropriation of $7 billion. It was an emphatic
announcement of support for the hard-pressed British. When Germany
attacked the USSR in June 1941 and British Prime Minister Winston
Churchill welcomed the Soviets as allies, Roosevelt extended the
privileges of lend-lease to the USSR. Thus, the United States was
virtually at war in the spring and summer of 1941, sending aid to
Britain and the USSR and even patrolling the Atlantic Ocean with the
U.S. Navy."

Former Congresswoman Clare Boothe Luce found the right expression
when
she charged Roosevelt with having lied us into war: "....Franklin
Roosevelt repeatedly deceived the American people during the period
before Pearl Harbor ... "

AND FROM THE "CINDY SHEEHAN", JOHN MURTHA, JANE FONDA OF HIS DAY,
JOSEPH KENNEDY NOT ONLY
ROOSEVELT'S AMBASSADOR TO THE UK BUT ALSO THE FATHER OF PRESIDENT
JOHN
F. KENNEDY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND SENATOR
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, AND THE FORMER SENATOR FROM MA EDWARD M. KENNEDY.

'Harry, (Truman) what the hell are you doing campaigning for that
crippled son-of-a-bitch that killed my son Joe?' [Joseph P.] Kennedy
said, referring to his oldest son, who had died in the war. Kennedy
went on, saying Roosevelt had caused the war. Truman, by his later
account,..."
-- "Truman," by David McCullough, Page 328

Of course for Leftism WWII is uniquely described as a "good war" but
only because we saved the asses of their beloved Bolsheviks in the
process.

In 1963, as the Soviet General Zhukov stated :

"It is now said that the allies never helped us........ However, one
cannot deny that
the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not
have formed our
reserves and could not have continued the war." "And today it seems
as though we had all this ourselves in abundance".

(From the Journal of Slavic Military Studies, Vol. 7, No. 3, Sept.
1994, pp567-586

no WMD found.....LOL

grunge as father xmas.....sit on my knee little girl

michaelnewport = ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

"Zulus Vulva" a écrit dans le message de groupe
de discussion :
...
On Sep 2, 10:01 pm, "Runge 124" wrote:
hohoho

"Zulus Vulva" a écrit dans le message de
groupe
de discussion :
...







On Aug 27, 5:29 pm, PJ Himselff wrote:
On Aug 27, 4:57 am, The Idiot Evleth unwisely
wrote to usenet:

n a USA TODAY Poll, 60% of Americans say "No," when asked "Do you
think
the
situation in Iraq was worth going to war over?" Similar majorities
either
felt that the war did not make the USA safer from terrorism or made
no
difference. The same was said of whether the political situation in
the
Middle East is more stable.

As usual Evleth pastes poll results he likes but then will castigate
the wisdom of Americans polled taking positions the idiot Evleth
doesn't agree with.

A more interesting poll would be on how American really feel about the
USofA going to war with Germany in WWII.

http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/chamberl.html
.
How Franklin Roosevelt Lied America Into War
by William Henry Chamberlin (no right wing zealot by any stretch)

Excerpt:

"..A president who cannot entrust the people with the truth betrays a
certain lack of faith in the basic tenets of democracy. But because
the masses are notoriously shortsighted and generally cannot see
danger until it is at their throats, our statesmen are forced to
deceive them into an awareness of their own long-run interests. This
is clearly what Roosevelt had to do. ..".

Read "The Fifties" by David Halberstam, also no right wing zealot by
any
stretch. .

On page 9 Halberstam says in describing the political scenario in
1948

"..many thought Roosevelt had dragged us "into the wrong war: wrong
allies, wrong enemies, wrong outcome". A peace that permitted Soviet
hegemony over Eastern Europe was unacceptable to many Americans.."

http://sangha.net/messengers/roosevelt.htm

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT MEMORIAL

"Lend-Lease

Following his reelection in 1940, President Roosevelt moved ahead
with
the dual policy of building up U.S. defenses while giving assistance
to
those countries resisting the aggression of Germany, Italy, and
Japan.
The major legislation was the Lend-Lease Act of March 1941, passed
over
the bitter opposition of the isolationists in Congress and their
national organization, the America First Committee. The Lend-Lease
Act
authorized the president to transfer to victims of aggression such
military equipment (a term interpreted to include food and clothing)
as
could be produced in the United States and acquired by the
government.
This act, which was destined to be extended for the length of World
War
II, began with an appropriation of $7 billion. It was an emphatic
announcement of support for the hard-pressed British. When Germany
attacked the USSR in June 1941 and British Prime Minister Winston
Churchill welcomed the Soviets as allies, Roosevelt extended the
privileges of lend-lease to the USSR. Thus, the United States was
virtually at war in the spring and summer of 1941, sending aid to
Britain and the USSR and even patrolling the Atlantic Ocean with the
U.S. Navy."

Former Congresswoman Clare Boothe Luce found the right expression
when
she charged Roosevelt with having lied us into war: "....Franklin
Roosevelt repeatedly deceived the American people during the period
before Pearl Harbor ... "

AND FROM THE "CINDY SHEEHAN", JOHN MURTHA, JANE FONDA OF HIS DAY,
JOSEPH KENNEDY NOT ONLY
ROOSEVELT'S AMBASSADOR TO THE UK BUT ALSO THE FATHER OF PRESIDENT
JOHN
F. KENNEDY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND SENATOR
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, AND THE FORMER SENATOR FROM MA EDWARD M. KENNEDY.

'Harry, (Truman) what the hell are you doing campaigning for that
crippled son-of-a-bitch that killed my son Joe?' [Joseph P.] Kennedy
said, referring to his oldest son, who had died in the war. Kennedy
went on, saying Roosevelt had caused the war. Truman, by his later
account,..."
-- "Truman," by David McCullough, Page 328

Of course for Leftism WWII is uniquely described as a "good war" but
only because we saved the asses of their beloved Bolsheviks in the
process.

In 1963, as the Soviet General Zhukov stated :

"It is now said that the allies never helped us........ However, one
cannot deny that
the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not
have formed our
reserves and could not have continued the war." "And today it seems
as though we had all this ourselves in abundance".

(From the Journal of Slavic Military Studies, Vol. 7, No. 3, Sept.
1994, pp567-586

no WMD found.....LOL

grunge as father xmas.....sit on my knee little girl

On 8/27/2010 10:29 AM, PJ Himselff wrote:
On Aug 27, 4:57 am, The Idiot unwisely
wrote to usenet:
n a USA TODAY Poll, 60% of Americans say "No," when asked "Do you think the
situation in Iraq was worth going to war over?" Similar majorities either
felt that the war did not make the USA safer from terrorism or made no
difference. The same was said of whether the political situation in the
Middle East is more stable.

the thing is we're not at war in Iraq... never have been.

the US hasn't been at war since the surrender of Imperial Japan.

4.9.2010 8:43, Anonymouse kirjoitti:

Viitikö mennä muualle konffista rte.