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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
Historian wants country called 'Siam'
A historian of Southeast Asian studies has launched a "Siam not Thailand" campaigning, urging constitution drafters to revert to the name used in the Kingdom's first constitution. "People who have been part of our country have different ethnic, linguistic and cultural identities. Therefore, to reflect historical fact and the present reality, the name of the country should be Siam, not Thailand," historian Charnvit Kasetsiri wrote in an open letter issued yesterday. The country's first constitution, promulgated in 1932, used Siam as the country's name, but in 1939 Prime Minister Field Marshal Phibul changed this to Thailand "for racist reasons", Charnvit said. "The government deems it is appropriate following the new fashion to change the name of our country to fit the race and the liking of the people," said the government statement in 1939. The name "Thailand" does not fit with historical or present facts as there are more than 40 ethnic groups in the country, including Chinese, Tai, Hmong, Akha, Karen, Laotians, Khmer and Mon, said Charnvit, a senior advisor and lecturer at Thammasat University's Southeast Asian Studies Programme. Constitution drafters discussed the issue of renaming the Kingdom in 1949 and 1968. "To reflect the reality about races, languages and cultural identities, the 2007 constitution should make Siam the official name of the country in order to promote reconciliation and acceptance of ethnic and cultural diversities, as well as for the benefit of the country and its people," Charnvit said. The historian asked people who agreed with his proposal to write to the constitution drafters and concerned parties. http://nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/...l_30030960.php |
#2
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 ¨ÑÇÒ¹ ha scritto: Historian wants country called 'Siam' A historian of Southeast Asian studies has launched a "Siam not Thailand" campaigning, urging constitution drafters to revert to the name used in the Kingdom's first constitution. "People who have been part of our country have different ethnic, linguistic and cultural identities. Therefore, to reflect historical fact and the present reality, the name of the country should be Siam, not Thailand," historian Charnvit Kasetsiri wrote in an open letter issued yesterday. The country's first constitution, promulgated in 1932, used Siam as the country's name, but in 1939 Prime Minister Field Marshal Phibul changed this to Thailand "for racist reasons", Charnvit said. "The government deems it is appropriate following the new fashion to change the name of our country to fit the race and the liking of the people," said the government statement in 1939. The name "Thailand" does not fit with historical or present facts as there are more than 40 ethnic groups in the country, including Chinese, Tai, Hmong, Akha, Karen, Laotians, Khmer and Mon, said Charnvit, a senior advisor and lecturer at Thammasat University's Southeast Asian Studies Programme. Constitution drafters discussed the issue of renaming the Kingdom in 1949 and 1968. "To reflect the reality about races, languages and cultural identities, the 2007 constitution should make Siam the official name of the country in order to promote reconciliation and acceptance of ethnic and cultural diversities, as well as for the benefit of the country and its people," Charnvit said. The historian asked people who agreed with his proposal to write to the constitution drafters and concerned parties. http://nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/...l_30030960.php He's not the only one to think this way: http://www.sulak-sivaraksa.org/web/about1.php * Siam The country of Thailand was known as Siam until 1939, when the name was changed to a hybrid, anglicised word. For many, this name signifies the crisis of traditional values. For this reason we use the word 'Thai' to refer to the people, the language, and the culture, while 'Siam' is used for the country itself. In a book of his, "Seeds of Peace", he laments this change was made under one of the country's worst dictatorships, and that this reason too warrants for a change back to the old name. - -- Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFBDt3xmftOyIWosRAv+TAJ4xfjqr3of4R3qRUjkCfs G/fxyA+ACfasQR vP+x+6vsZf1MC+MClrPKhdQ= =IZx1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#3
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
Siam is a Khmer word meaning " thieves " .
the Khmer town of Siem -Reap near to Angkor Watt , Siem -Reap means the destruction of the thieves . this meaning of Siam = Sayam = the barbarian thieves , is not good for Thailand . Thai people have migrated from the Black River in Northern Vietnam into the central plain of the Issan , which was Khmer's territory . the name Siam has a Khmer origine, pronounced as See-em. On Apr 3, 9:14 am, "¨ÑÇÒ¹" wrote: Historian wants country called 'Siam' A historian of Southeast Asian studies has launched a "Siam not Thailand" campaigning, urging constitution drafters to revert to the name used in the Kingdom's first constitution. "People who have been part of our country have different ethnic, linguistic and cultural identities. Therefore, to reflect historical fact and the present reality, the name of the country should be Siam, not Thailand," historian Charnvit Kasetsiri wrote in an open letter issued yesterday. The country's first constitution, promulgated in 1932, used Siam as the country's name, but in 1939 Prime Minister Field Marshal Phibul changed this to Thailand "for racist reasons", Charnvit said. "The government deems it is appropriate following the new fashion to change the name of our country to fit the race and the liking of the people," said the government statement in 1939. The name "Thailand" does not fit with historical or present facts as there are more than 40 ethnic groups in the country, including Chinese, Tai, Hmong, Akha, Karen, Laotians, Khmer and Mon, said Charnvit, a senior advisor and lecturer at Thammasat University's Southeast Asian Studies Programme. Constitution drafters discussed the issue of renaming the Kingdom in 1949 and 1968. "To reflect the reality about races, languages and cultural identities, the 2007 constitution should make Siam the official name of the country in order to promote reconciliation and acceptance of ethnic and cultural diversities, as well as for the benefit of the country and its people," Charnvit said. The historian asked people who agreed with his proposal to write to the constitution drafters and concerned parties. http://nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/...l_30030960.php |
#4
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
"Alessandro Selli" wrote in message
... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ¨ÑÇÒ¹ ha scritto: Historian wants country called 'Siam' A historian of Southeast Asian studies has launched a "Siam not Thailand" campaigning, urging constitution drafters to revert to the name used in the Kingdom's first constitution. "People who have been part of our country have different ethnic, linguistic and cultural identities. Therefore, to reflect historical fact and the present reality, the name of the country should be Siam, not Thailand," historian Charnvit Kasetsiri wrote in an open letter issued yesterday. The country's first constitution, promulgated in 1932, used Siam as the country's name, but in 1939 Prime Minister Field Marshal Phibul changed this to Thailand "for racist reasons", Charnvit said. "The government deems it is appropriate following the new fashion to change the name of our country to fit the race and the liking of the people," said the government statement in 1939. The name "Thailand" does not fit with historical or present facts as there are more than 40 ethnic groups in the country, including Chinese, Tai, Hmong, Akha, Karen, Laotians, Khmer and Mon, said Charnvit, a senior advisor and lecturer at Thammasat University's Southeast Asian Studies Programme. Constitution drafters discussed the issue of renaming the Kingdom in 1949 and 1968. "To reflect the reality about races, languages and cultural identities, the 2007 constitution should make Siam the official name of the country in order to promote reconciliation and acceptance of ethnic and cultural diversities, as well as for the benefit of the country and its people," Charnvit said. The historian asked people who agreed with his proposal to write to the constitution drafters and concerned parties. http://nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/...l_30030960.php He's not the only one to think this way: http://www.sulak-sivaraksa.org/web/about1.php * Siam The country of Thailand was known as Siam until 1939, when the name was changed to a hybrid, anglicised word. For many, this name signifies the crisis of traditional values. For this reason we use the word 'Thai' to refer to the people, the language, and the culture, while 'Siam' is used for the country itself. In a book of his, "Seeds of Peace", he laments this change was made under one of the country's worst dictatorships, and that this reason too warrants for a change back to the old name. Thanks for the link, Alessandro. Changing names for a country has been applied to many countries in the world, not only to Thailand. Although the correct name for the country since 1939 is Thailand (Prathet Thai or Muang Thai), Siam is used in many books and even in many, every day conversations. There will always be a part of the population who is fond of the name "Siam" for their country and a part of the population who is fond with the more Westernised name "Thailand". IMHO, changing the name of the country with all the costs involved in a time where lots of the population has barely the means to feed themselves (poverty), is purely a nationalistic thing that doesn't make any substancial changes to daily life of the biggest part of the population. In the mean time. we can use the name "Land of Smiles" which is widely accepted. - -- Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFBDt3xmftOyIWosRAv+TAJ4xfjqr3of4R3qRUjkCfs G/fxyA+ACfasQR vP+x+6vsZf1MC+MClrPKhdQ= =IZx1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#5
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
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Hash: SHA1 Mohammed the Holy Nabi ha scritto: Siam is a Khmer word meaning " thieves " . the Khmer town of Siem -Reap near to Angkor Watt , Siem -Reap means the destruction of the thieves . this meaning of Siam = Sayam = the barbarian thieves , is not good for Thailand . Thai people have migrated from the Black River in Northern Vietnam into the central plain of the Issan , which was Khmer's territory . the name Siam has a Khmer origine, pronounced as See-em. I beg you to provide your sources. This is one of mine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siam The word Thai (ไทย) means "freedom" in the Thai language and is also the name of the majority ethnic group. What about the Thai people as an ethnic group? Were they from Cambodia (Khmer) or Vietnamese? No, they weren't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people The earliest mention of the Thai, as farmers in south China, comes from Chinese records dating back to the sixth century BCE. These early Thai emanated out of the Yunnan region and dispersed into the general area of what is today Thailand. These Thai peoples arrived in various waves and displaced the earlier native Mon and Khmer populations as they settled the region with a large group settling in Thailand during the Sung period of China roughly around 960 CE. - -- Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFIiu3xmftOyIWosRAgE/AJ9mphNeMM+UwWdFS4w1o++P62sIBQCfRBk+ WAkG0YHvd4E6ZfaNpgxnK4M= =S6Qi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#6
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
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Hash: RIPEMD160 Alessandro Selli ha scritto: [...] The word Thai (D") means "freedom" in the Thai language Somehow I *think* that I *might* have goofed this one... :-) Back to the books, then. - -- Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFJ453xmftOyIWosRA6wlAJ9kD/fll+c//noZkm4JMr2OnFNocwCfYS4n S+CWWKsyVx0vni5dVwtb5bU= =rBro -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#7
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
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Hash: RIPEMD160 Mohammed the Holy Nabi ha scritto: Siam is a Khmer word meaning " thieves " . the Khmer town of Siem -Reap near to Angkor Watt , Siem -Reap means the destruction of the thieves . this meaning of Siam = Sayam = the barbarian thieves , is not good for Thailand . Thai people have migrated from the Black River in Northern Vietnam into the central plain of the Issan , which was Khmer's territory . the name Siam has a Khmer origine, pronounced as See-em. I beg you to provide with your sources. This is what I found: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/...9/Siam2tai.htm [...] During the Sukothai Period, the Mongol Court's emissaries of 1282, 1293, and 1294 that were sent to summon the Thai King called the Kingdom "Hsien" (G. William Skinner, Chinese Society in Thailand: 2). Later on during the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese emissary of 1370 called the Kingdom "Hsien-lo" -- a combined term of "Hsien" for Sukothai and "Lo-hu" for Lawo Kingdom, as a recognition of Ayuthaya as the power holder of both (Skinner: 3). Other neighbors also called the Thai Kingdom by similar names. The Khmers, one of the most ancient of all people ever lived in the area, refered to the Thais as Syamas. The same word was used by them to refer to the aborigines who lived scatteredly in the area prior to the Thais' arrival in the 13th century. The Vietnamese, the Assam, Lawa, and Mon people, the various people of modern day Myanmar and the various chinese groups of South China area -- all called the Thai by the similar sounding names of sam, siam, syam, seem, same, san, tsim, siang, syeem, seyae (Jit Poomisak, Kwam Pen Ma Kong Kum Siam). This word itself, Siam, noone really knows what it means or where it originated from. Some believe it's a sanskrit word meaning black or dark gold. Some say it's from the word "Cham," either Cham in Burma or Vietnam area. When the European arrived, following Thailand's neighbors, they too called the area "Siam" and the occupants "Siamese". The Thais always have called themselves "tai" -- be it Red Thai, Black Thai, Big Thai, Small Thai, etc. King Mongkut (Rama IV), upon opening the country to the Europeans, was the first to officially use "Siam" as the name of the country. He also was the one to coin up the word "Pra Siam Tevatirat" as a name for the national guardian spirit. Prior to this, there existed no such concept as "nation," and no corresponding national guardian spirit. People were either from, or belong to, a certain "Ban" (villages) or a certain "Mueng" (cities or principalities); and there were only "Phi Ban" (village guardian spirit) and "Phi Mueng" (city guardian spirit). Thus King Mongkut was the first to introduce the concept of "nation" or "state" to Thailand, and the first to try to create a national identity for the country, as a response to the encroaching Western cultures and influences. About the Thai as an ethnic group, were they from Cambodia (Khmer) or from Vietnam? Doesn't seems so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people The earliest mention of the Thai, as farmers in south China, comes from Chinese records dating back to the sixth century BCE. These early Thai emanated out of the Yunnan region and dispersed into the general area of what is today Thailand. These Thai peoples arrived in various waves and displaced the earlier native Mon and Khmer populations as they settled the region with a large group settling in Thailand during the Sung period of China roughly around 960 CE. - -- Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFKQz3xmftOyIWosRA7n2AJ9QQC7m+zfN2gJDei5wtm As6+j07wCeNPvM AU684pgLIXWtb03AKLkZfr0= =9t8m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#8
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
my Khmer friend in Khmer school in Phnom Penh told me that Siam
meant " thieves " as referred to the Siamese . But no proven record in Khmer languageis available . Siem = Siam = Siamese thieves , Reap = Destruction . so Siem Reap town in the south of Angkor Watt temple means the destruction of the Siamese people. I have met many Thai people along the river bank of the Balck River in North Vietnam in 2000 . On Apr 4, 10:27Â*pm, Alessandro Selli wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mohammed the Holy Nabi ha scritto: Siam is a Â*Khmer Â*word Â* meaning Â*" thieves " . the Â*Khmer Â*town of Â*Siem -Reap Â*near to Â*Angkor Â*Watt , Siem -Reap Â*means the destruction of the Â*thieves . this Â*meaning of Â*Siam = Sayam = the Â*barbarian Â*thieves , is Â*not good Â*for Â*Thailand . Thai people Â*have Â*migrated Â*from Â*the Black River in Northern Vietnam into the central plain of the Issan , which was Â*Khmer's Â*territory . the Â*name Â*Siam has a Â*Khmer Â*origine, pronounced as Â*See-em. Â* I beg you to provide your sources. This is one of mine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siam Â* Â* Â* Â* The word Thai (ไทย) means "freedom" in the Thai language Â* Â* Â* Â* and is also the name of the majority ethnic group. Â* What about the Thai people as an ethnic group? Â*Were they from Cambodia (Khmer) or Vietnamese? Â*No, they weren't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people Â* Â* Â* Â* The earliest mention of the Thai, as farmers in south Â* Â* Â* Â* China, comes from Chinese records dating back to the Â* Â* Â* Â* sixth century BCE. These early Thai emanated out of the Â* Â* Â* Â* Yunnan region and dispersed into the general area of Â* Â* Â* Â* what is today Thailand. These Thai peoples arrived in Â* Â* Â* Â* various waves and displaced the earlier native Mon and Â* Â* Â* Â* Khmer populations as they settled the region with a Â* Â* Â* Â* large group settling in Thailand during the Sung period Â* Â* Â* Â* of China roughly around 960 CE. - -- Alessandro Sellihttp://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla -http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFIiu3xmftOyIWosRAgE/AJ9mphNeMM+UwWdFS4w1o++P62sIBQCfRBk+ WAkG0YHvd4E6ZfaNpgxnK4M= =S6Qi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#9
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
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Hash: RIPEMD160 Mohammed the Holy Nabi ha scritto: my Khmer friend in Khmer school in Phnom Penh told me that Siam meant " thieves " as referred to the Siamese . This could well mean that *they* use the term Siam in a disparaging sense. But it does not mean that the word itself means anything bad. Maybe it did sometimes in the far past to some. But what's the point if both the documents and the memory of that past meaning are lost today? How could it be that the siamese people accepted to be called such a low name? In Italy today the world romanian, that is: "a person who is native of Romania", is extensively used in a disparaging sense. They are poor people. They emigrated from a country deeply broken and socially destitute. They do all the most menial works available for meager wages. They often lack the most basic schooling. So, beeing called a romanian to many non romanians is an insult. But I don't think this is a good reason to want to change the name to that country and its' people. What I reported does not prove the opposite, I know. But I happened across many cases where people where *sure* about the meaning of some words that were found to have a completely different meaning when an ethimological search was performed. [...] I have met many Thai people along the river bank of the Balck River in North Vietnam in 2000 . No doubt about it. People in this area of the world too have been quite prone at moving and resettling throughout history. And cinese influences in the Vietnamese ethnic, cultural and linguistic heritage are much more evident than in Thailand/Siams' case. - -- Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFNBf3xmftOyIWosRAwusAJ97B9DnQeLXV4OKP7YQ73 YplsulWACeLZGv UgtkLTPf1nL6eHp+xxjiM9U= =q3QP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#10
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Historian wants country called 'Siam'
On Apr 5, 9:11 am, "Mohammed the Holy Nabi"
wrote: Siam is a Khmer word meaning " thieves " . the Khmer town of Siem -Reap near to Angkor Watt , Siem -Reap means the destruction of the thieves . this meaning of Siam = Sayam = the barbarian thieves , is not good for Thailand . Thai people have migrated from the Black River in Northern Vietnam into the central plain of the Issan , which was Khmer's territory . the name Siam has a Khmer origine, pronounced as See-em. OMG -- Did you invent this info yourself, or discover a source? If, as you say, Siam is pronounced "See-em" in Khmer and this means "thieves" then Siam , pronounced "Sai-am" a. Does not mean thieves in Khmer b. Does not mean thieves in Thai c. Does not mean the same in Thai as in Khmer (and neither does "See- em"!) d. Surely would never have been the name of the country if it did, in either form, mean thieves. |
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