Bush Retreats Into Private, Paranoid World

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:


Earl Evleth wrote:

On 31/07/04 22:49, in article , "John
Bermont" wrote:

Who was the Fuhrer?


A general term for leader. If one is traveling in tourist
sites in Germany, the leader of a tour group will call himself
the "fuhrer".

Since we are talking about the President of the USA we use
a capitalized form of "the Fuhrer" to show respect for Bush.
Who are his Gauleiters remain an open question.


Good one, Earl!

More name calling and snide remarks. Comparing Bush with Hitler is
nonsense. Don't you Bush haters have an argument?
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

Why don't you open a Hostel funded by direct deposit US Corp retirement
and SS checks... You can hire your staff cheap right out of the French
penal system. Preferable than living in the US to you and your ilk I'm
sure...

Tim K

"Earl Evleth" wrote in message
...
question is how should Americans traveling in Europe prepare
themselves for an illegal take over of the American government
by God fearing folks acting under God's orders?

Should we prepare for American political refugees in Europe?

Earl

Why don't you just go to Florida to die like the rest... g France is
not 'sunnier' than FLA but you 'vacation' there regularly and know
that...

WHO else ever heard of that BS 'old saying' BTW...?

Tim K

"Earl Evleth" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/04 16:58, in article ,
"Carole
Allen" wrote:

Hey Earl,how many extra folks can you sleep at your place? You may
find you have lots of houseguests...LOL

We are academics and, and ironically, the summer is a time when
a lot of Americans a flee America to come to France. Many are
academics
who dream of a ³need to go² research project;

One friend, who in fact stays with "us" (we also have a studio)
comes just after classes have ended and stays until the day before
they start. He actually is a café expert, having written one book
on the subject and a couple of others. So he always finds a
³need to go to France² research project.

He does this each summer and comes for "research"!

In fact, our coming permanently in 1974 was because we did this
a number of times in the 1960s and 70s and asked the question
"why go back"? I got a research position here in Paris and we
stayed!

We were not political refugees, however, but perhaps
cultural ones. Just seeking a place in the sun which was a bit
sunnier.
There is an old saying, "all good Americans comes to Paris when they
die".
Why wait, "do it".

Earl

John Bermont wrote:



EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:



Earl Evleth wrote:

On 31/07/04 22:49, in article , "John
Bermont" wrote:

Who was the Fuhrer?



A general term for leader. If one is traveling in tourist
sites in Germany, the leader of a tour group will call himself
the "fuhrer".

Since we are talking about the President of the USA we use
a capitalized form of "the Fuhrer" to show respect for Bush.
Who are his Gauleiters remain an open question.



Good one, Earl!

More name calling and snide remarks. Comparing Bush with Hitler is
nonsense. Don't you Bush haters have an argument?

The facts speak for themselves, unless you are too blind to see them!

On 1/08/04 21:31, in article
et, "Tim Kroesen"
wrote:

WHO else ever heard of that BS 'old saying' BTW...?

My, you are uncultured! A little history, son.

Thomas Appleton (1812-84), U.S. author.

"Good Americans, when they die, go to Paris."

and mentioned in the article below.

It is rephrased in various ways, like
"good Americans go to Paris when they die"
which gets 263,000 google hits.

Here is some more on Americans in Paris

Live and learn, Timmy.

Earl

******


From Jefferson to Jazz: Americans in Paris

By Mary Blume ** International Herald Tribune
PARIS - The line between self-improvement and entitlement, never too clear
among Americans, perhaps vanishes totally when Americans become tourists, as
the speech by a woman in Henry James's ''The Pension Beauregard'' suggests:

''To care only for the best! To do the best, to know the best - to have, to
desire, to recognize only the best. That is what I have always done, in my
quiet little way. I have gone through Europe on my devoted little errand,
seeking, seeing, heeding only the best. And it is not for myself alone; it
has been for my daughter. My daughter has had the best.''

This peculiarly American form of avidity is the unstated thread in Harvey
Levenstein's study of American tourists in France from Jefferson to the Jazz
Age, ''Seductive Journey'' (University of Chicago Press).

At first, Americans were daunted by France's cultural superiority and
mistrustful of its morals. No American under the age of 30 should visit
Paris, said Thomas Jefferson, who knew the city's lures all too well. He had
also seen young dissolute milords on the Grand Tour and advised two wealthy
young Americans who had sought his counsel not to go on a spree but to study
subjects of use to their young country.

He headed his list ''Objects of Attention for an American'' and included
agriculture, mechanical arts, labor conditions, architecture in order to
find ideas for housing America's growing population and gardening, not for
beauty but to find useful plants that might be imported to the new republic.

He also advised sailing in a ship that was neither too old nor too new. The
trip to Paris was appalling, even when in 1818 new packets carried live farm
animals to assure passengers a supply of fresh food. Decades later, Ralph
Waldo Emerson observed, ''It seems strange that the first man who came to
sea did not turn round and go straight back again.''

Once the exhausted tourists arrived in Paris, they were confronted by mucky
sidewalkless streets, terrible smells and, rising from them, incongruous
splendors such as the Luxembourg, Louvre and Tuileries palaces. Tourists
could wander though Versailles, and one Boston couple in 1776 freely watched
the queen dine. Later, a young Connecticut lawyer made a laconic diary note:
''On the 21st of January, the second day of my arrival, I mixed with the
citizens and saw Louis the Sixteenth beheaded.''

The early American tourists were usually male; married men often left their
wives behind. Until the 1850s the point of tourism was cultural and part of
the preparation was to learn French. James Fenimore Cooper studied it for
three years before setting forth. Itineraries centered on Paris; the rest of
France was simply passed through on the way to Italy, Germany or the Alps.
If travel improved the mind, it also reinforced what Americans already knew:
that their country was the best. ''We have not as much refinement, but more
of everything that is good,'' one New Yorker wrote to his son.

French refinement was in many ways suspect, in any case. Sauces were
presumed to cover tainted meat, the French ate slowly instead of bolting
their food as good Americans did. As for the women, they were not beautiful
but, worse, they were disturbingly alluring and frequently available.
Levenstein notes that, like many young Americans, Thomas Appleton lost his
virginity in Paris, giving new resonance to his observation (later quoted by
Oliver Wendell Holmes), ''Good Americans, when they die, go to Paris.''

Americans, especially women, were of course very good with their poke
bonnets and Protestant rectitude, turning their backs on nude statues and
ignoring bedizened creatures of the streets. And as travel became easier,
cheaper and faster and as tourist amenities improved with the Great
Exhibition of 1867, more women traveled, bringing about what Levenstein
calls the feminization of American tourism.

Women, having finer sensibilities than men, or so it was deemed, became
their equals (and eventually their superiors) in cultural matters: A sincere
love of beauty and plain common sense outweighed connoisseurship, wrote one
(female) guide to the Louvre. In time it was accepted that men took care of
business and their wives took care of art. American men, Henry James said,
''had the elements of modern man with the culture left out.''

American women tourists also learned to overlook the dubious morality of
Paris in favor of one of its enduring pleasures: shopping. ''Dress makers
and milliners and such people come every morning to see my party and take
their orders,'' wrote a man expensively traveling with his wife and two
daughters.

Tourists tend to take local events as inconveniences and the Commune of 1871
hardly disturbed the Americans, although Annie Bradley, a 22-year-old from
upstate New York, was annoyed to find the famous Paris zoo empty because the
animals had been eaten during the siege of 1870. ''Was never so disappointed
in a place in all my life,'' she told her diary.

The transactions of tourism changed. The rich came for pleasure while
earnest culture-seekers were often college girls who prepared for their trip
by testing each other on French history and could not afford to travel with
17 trunks. Americans are still the only people who look at, and judge, their
compatriots when they travel (other nationalities tend to exempt their own
from criticism): Henry Adams described ''a mob of tourists of many kinds of
repulsiveness'' while James wondered, ''Are we the worst-looking people in
the world?''

There was no point in telling Parisians that those funny-looking people came
from Oshkosh because Parisians had never heard of Oshkosh, and in any case
Parisians were well-disposed to Americans except when they mistook them for
English. Until 1917, Levenstein maintains, anti-Americanism did not exist.

Many of the U.S. soldiers in World War I were unruly, some were criminals.
American segregation of black troops astonished the French who found nothing
immediately offensive in the sight of a black skin and had
well-intentionedly even named a Paris hotel l'Hotel de l'Oncle Tom.

More, and coarser, Americans were visiting Paris and were being liked less,
in part because of their Prohibition-inspired drunkenness and their
insensitive suggestions that France pay off its war debts. By 1926 French
mobs attacked a bus taking tourists on a Paris-by-night tour.

Levenstein ends with the Great Depression, though the seductive journey
continues today. And in reverse: If more and more Americans come to Paris,
so more and more Parisians now go to New York - for its museums, its
shopping and even its women and food.

***

If you wish to read about Black Americans who came to France to escape
racism, I advise "Paris Noir" by Stovall.

On 1/08/04 21:31, in article
et, "Tim Kroesen"
wrote:

WHO else ever heard of that BS 'old saying' BTW...?

My, you are uncultured! A little history, son.

Thomas Appleton (1812-84), U.S. author.

"Good Americans, when they die, go to Paris."

and mentioned in the article below.

It is rephrased in various ways, like
"good Americans go to Paris when they die"
which gets 263,000 google hits.

Here is some more on Americans in Paris

Live and learn, Timmy.

Earl

******


From Jefferson to Jazz: Americans in Paris

By Mary Blume ** International Herald Tribune
PARIS - The line between self-improvement and entitlement, never too clear
among Americans, perhaps vanishes totally when Americans become tourists, as
the speech by a woman in Henry James's ''The Pension Beauregard'' suggests:

''To care only for the best! To do the best, to know the best - to have, to
desire, to recognize only the best. That is what I have always done, in my
quiet little way. I have gone through Europe on my devoted little errand,
seeking, seeing, heeding only the best. And it is not for myself alone; it
has been for my daughter. My daughter has had the best.''

This peculiarly American form of avidity is the unstated thread in Harvey
Levenstein's study of American tourists in France from Jefferson to the Jazz
Age, ''Seductive Journey'' (University of Chicago Press).

At first, Americans were daunted by France's cultural superiority and
mistrustful of its morals. No American under the age of 30 should visit
Paris, said Thomas Jefferson, who knew the city's lures all too well. He had
also seen young dissolute milords on the Grand Tour and advised two wealthy
young Americans who had sought his counsel not to go on a spree but to study
subjects of use to their young country.

He headed his list ''Objects of Attention for an American'' and included
agriculture, mechanical arts, labor conditions, architecture in order to
find ideas for housing America's growing population and gardening, not for
beauty but to find useful plants that might be imported to the new republic.

He also advised sailing in a ship that was neither too old nor too new. The
trip to Paris was appalling, even when in 1818 new packets carried live farm
animals to assure passengers a supply of fresh food. Decades later, Ralph
Waldo Emerson observed, ''It seems strange that the first man who came to
sea did not turn round and go straight back again.''

Once the exhausted tourists arrived in Paris, they were confronted by mucky
sidewalkless streets, terrible smells and, rising from them, incongruous
splendors such as the Luxembourg, Louvre and Tuileries palaces. Tourists
could wander though Versailles, and one Boston couple in 1776 freely watched
the queen dine. Later, a young Connecticut lawyer made a laconic diary note:
''On the 21st of January, the second day of my arrival, I mixed with the
citizens and saw Louis the Sixteenth beheaded.''

The early American tourists were usually male; married men often left their
wives behind. Until the 1850s the point of tourism was cultural and part of
the preparation was to learn French. James Fenimore Cooper studied it for
three years before setting forth. Itineraries centered on Paris; the rest of
France was simply passed through on the way to Italy, Germany or the Alps.
If travel improved the mind, it also reinforced what Americans already knew:
that their country was the best. ''We have not as much refinement, but more
of everything that is good,'' one New Yorker wrote to his son.

French refinement was in many ways suspect, in any case. Sauces were
presumed to cover tainted meat, the French ate slowly instead of bolting
their food as good Americans did. As for the women, they were not beautiful
but, worse, they were disturbingly alluring and frequently available.
Levenstein notes that, like many young Americans, Thomas Appleton lost his
virginity in Paris, giving new resonance to his observation (later quoted by
Oliver Wendell Holmes), ''Good Americans, when they die, go to Paris.''

Americans, especially women, were of course very good with their poke
bonnets and Protestant rectitude, turning their backs on nude statues and
ignoring bedizened creatures of the streets. And as travel became easier,
cheaper and faster and as tourist amenities improved with the Great
Exhibition of 1867, more women traveled, bringing about what Levenstein
calls the feminization of American tourism.

Women, having finer sensibilities than men, or so it was deemed, became
their equals (and eventually their superiors) in cultural matters: A sincere
love of beauty and plain common sense outweighed connoisseurship, wrote one
(female) guide to the Louvre. In time it was accepted that men took care of
business and their wives took care of art. American men, Henry James said,
''had the elements of modern man with the culture left out.''

American women tourists also learned to overlook the dubious morality of
Paris in favor of one of its enduring pleasures: shopping. ''Dress makers
and milliners and such people come every morning to see my party and take
their orders,'' wrote a man expensively traveling with his wife and two
daughters.

Tourists tend to take local events as inconveniences and the Commune of 1871
hardly disturbed the Americans, although Annie Bradley, a 22-year-old from
upstate New York, was annoyed to find the famous Paris zoo empty because the
animals had been eaten during the siege of 1870. ''Was never so disappointed
in a place in all my life,'' she told her diary.

The transactions of tourism changed. The rich came for pleasure while
earnest culture-seekers were often college girls who prepared for their trip
by testing each other on French history and could not afford to travel with
17 trunks. Americans are still the only people who look at, and judge, their
compatriots when they travel (other nationalities tend to exempt their own
from criticism): Henry Adams described ''a mob of tourists of many kinds of
repulsiveness'' while James wondered, ''Are we the worst-looking people in
the world?''

There was no point in telling Parisians that those funny-looking people came
from Oshkosh because Parisians had never heard of Oshkosh, and in any case
Parisians were well-disposed to Americans except when they mistook them for
English. Until 1917, Levenstein maintains, anti-Americanism did not exist.

Many of the U.S. soldiers in World War I were unruly, some were criminals.
American segregation of black troops astonished the French who found nothing
immediately offensive in the sight of a black skin and had
well-intentionedly even named a Paris hotel l'Hotel de l'Oncle Tom.

More, and coarser, Americans were visiting Paris and were being liked less,
in part because of their Prohibition-inspired drunkenness and their
insensitive suggestions that France pay off its war debts. By 1926 French
mobs attacked a bus taking tourists on a Paris-by-night tour.

Levenstein ends with the Great Depression, though the seductive journey
continues today. And in reverse: If more and more Americans come to Paris,
so more and more Parisians now go to New York - for its museums, its
shopping and even its women and food.

***

If you wish to read about Black Americans who came to France to escape
racism, I advise "Paris Noir" by Stovall.

So some obscure 17th Century phrase searchable on Google is "an old
saying" as you claim???

The only relationship I can see is that you *are* old and quoted it at
least once ... As to your own 'culture'; you Sir *are* an admitted mutt
of mixed and dubious cultural pedigree that even another French pooch
(GASTON!) rolls his eyes at in the local restauraunts... g

Tim K

"Earl Evleth" wrote in message
...
On 1/08/04 21:31, in article
et, "Tim Kroesen"
wrote:

WHO else ever heard of that BS 'old saying' BTW...?

My, you are uncultured! A little history, son.

Thomas Appleton (1812-84), U.S. author.

"Good Americans, when they die, go to Paris."

and mentioned in the article below.

It is rephrased in various ways, like
"good Americans go to Paris when they die"
which gets 263,000 google hits.

Here is some more on Americans in Paris

Live and learn, Timmy.

Earl

******


From Jefferson to Jazz: Americans in Paris

By Mary Blume International Herald Tribune
PARIS - The line between self-improvement and entitlement, never too
clear
among Americans, perhaps vanishes totally when Americans become
tourists, as
the speech by a woman in Henry James's ''The Pension Beauregard''
suggests:

''To care only for the best! To do the best, to know the best - to
have, to
desire, to recognize only the best. That is what I have always done,
in my
quiet little way. I have gone through Europe on my devoted little
errand,
seeking, seeing, heeding only the best. And it is not for myself
alone; it
has been for my daughter. My daughter has had the best.''

This peculiarly American form of avidity is the unstated thread in
Harvey
Levenstein's study of American tourists in France from Jefferson to
the Jazz
Age, ''Seductive Journey'' (University of Chicago Press).

At first, Americans were daunted by France's cultural superiority and
mistrustful of its morals. No American under the age of 30 should
visit
Paris, said Thomas Jefferson, who knew the city's lures all too well.
He had
also seen young dissolute milords on the Grand Tour and advised two
wealthy
young Americans who had sought his counsel not to go on a spree but to
study
subjects of use to their young country.

He headed his list ''Objects of Attention for an American'' and
included
agriculture, mechanical arts, labor conditions, architecture in order
to
find ideas for housing America's growing population and gardening, not
for
beauty but to find useful plants that might be imported to the new
republic.

He also advised sailing in a ship that was neither too old nor too
new. The
trip to Paris was appalling, even when in 1818 new packets carried
live farm
animals to assure passengers a supply of fresh food. Decades later,
Ralph
Waldo Emerson observed, ''It seems strange that the first man who came
to
sea did not turn round and go straight back again.''

Once the exhausted tourists arrived in Paris, they were confronted by
mucky
sidewalkless streets, terrible smells and, rising from them,
incongruous
splendors such as the Luxembourg, Louvre and Tuileries palaces.
Tourists
could wander though Versailles, and one Boston couple in 1776 freely
watched
the queen dine. Later, a young Connecticut lawyer made a laconic diary
note:
''On the 21st of January, the second day of my arrival, I mixed with
the
citizens and saw Louis the Sixteenth beheaded.''

The early American tourists were usually male; married men often left
their
wives behind. Until the 1850s the point of tourism was cultural and
part of
the preparation was to learn French. James Fenimore Cooper studied it
for
three years before setting forth. Itineraries centered on Paris; the
rest of
France was simply passed through on the way to Italy, Germany or the
Alps.
If travel improved the mind, it also reinforced what Americans already
knew:
that their country was the best. ''We have not as much refinement, but
more
of everything that is good,'' one New Yorker wrote to his son.

French refinement was in many ways suspect, in any case. Sauces were
presumed to cover tainted meat, the French ate slowly instead of
bolting
their food as good Americans did. As for the women, they were not
beautiful
but, worse, they were disturbingly alluring and frequently available.
Levenstein notes that, like many young Americans, Thomas Appleton lost
his
virginity in Paris, giving new resonance to his observation (later
quoted by
Oliver Wendell Holmes), ''Good Americans, when they die, go to
Paris.''

Americans, especially women, were of course very good with their poke
bonnets and Protestant rectitude, turning their backs on nude statues
and
ignoring bedizened creatures of the streets. And as travel became
easier,
cheaper and faster and as tourist amenities improved with the Great
Exhibition of 1867, more women traveled, bringing about what
Levenstein
calls the feminization of American tourism.

Women, having finer sensibilities than men, or so it was deemed,
became
their equals (and eventually their superiors) in cultural matters: A
sincere
love of beauty and plain common sense outweighed connoisseurship,
wrote one
(female) guide to the Louvre. In time it was accepted that men took
care of
business and their wives took care of art. American men, Henry James
said,
''had the elements of modern man with the culture left out.''

American women tourists also learned to overlook the dubious morality
of
Paris in favor of one of its enduring pleasures: shopping. ''Dress
makers
and milliners and such people come every morning to see my party and
take
their orders,'' wrote a man expensively traveling with his wife and
two
daughters.

Tourists tend to take local events as inconveniences and the Commune
of 1871
hardly disturbed the Americans, although Annie Bradley, a 22-year-old
from
upstate New York, was annoyed to find the famous Paris zoo empty
because the
animals had been eaten during the siege of 1870. ''Was never so
disappointed
in a place in all my life,'' she told her diary.

The transactions of tourism changed. The rich came for pleasure while
earnest culture-seekers were often college girls who prepared for
their trip
by testing each other on French history and could not afford to travel
with
17 trunks. Americans are still the only people who look at, and judge,
their
compatriots when they travel (other nationalities tend to exempt their
own
from criticism): Henry Adams described ''a mob of tourists of many
kinds of
repulsiveness'' while James wondered, ''Are we the worst-looking
people in
the world?''

There was no point in telling Parisians that those funny-looking
people came
from Oshkosh because Parisians had never heard of Oshkosh, and in any
case
Parisians were well-disposed to Americans except when they mistook
them for
English. Until 1917, Levenstein maintains, anti-Americanism did not
exist.

Many of the U.S. soldiers in World War I were unruly, some were
criminals.
American segregation of black troops astonished the French who found
nothing
immediately offensive in the sight of a black skin and had
well-intentionedly even named a Paris hotel l'Hotel de l'Oncle Tom.

More, and coarser, Americans were visiting Paris and were being liked
less,
in part because of their Prohibition-inspired drunkenness and their
insensitive suggestions that France pay off its war debts. By 1926
French
mobs attacked a bus taking tourists on a Paris-by-night tour.

Levenstein ends with the Great Depression, though the seductive
journey
continues today. And in reverse: If more and more Americans come to
Paris,
so more and more Parisians now go to New York - for its museums, its
shopping and even its women and food.

***

If you wish to read about Black Americans who came to France to escape
racism, I advise "Paris Noir" by Stovall.

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:


John Bermont wrote:



EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:



Earl Evleth wrote:

On 31/07/04 22:49, in article , "John
Bermont" wrote:

Who was the Fuhrer?




A general term for leader. If one is traveling in tourist
sites in Germany, the leader of a tour group will call himself
the "fuhrer".

Since we are talking about the President of the USA we use
a capitalized form of "the Fuhrer" to show respect for Bush.
Who are his Gauleiters remain an open question.




Good one, Earl!

More name calling and snide remarks. Comparing Bush with Hitler is
nonsense. Don't you Bush haters have an argument?


The facts speak for themselves, unless you are too blind to see them!


What are the facts you speak of?
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

Earl Evleth wrote in message ...
On 31/07/04 22:49, in article , "John
Bermont" wrote:

Who was the Fuhrer?


A general term for leader. If one is traveling in tourist
sites in Germany, the leader of a tour group will call himself
the "fuhrer".

Since we are talking about the President of the USA we use
a capitalized form of "the Fuhrer" to show respect for Bush.
Who are his Gauleiters remain an open question.



Earl

Hey stupid- There is no word in the German language "fuhrer"! You
might be thinking of a word "fuehrer" because the word includes a "u"
with umlaut,
changed to "ue" in computer vernacular

Not surprised at your stupidity based on your political derangements
even though you claim to have lived a couple of hundred miles from
German speaking people,
for 30 years as you claim.

Enlighten your California fruit cake, worshipper, Diva, Evelyn,
whoever the hell she is, from the land of fruits and nuts, since she
takes pleasure in parroting your nonsense like "good one Earl" in
response to your stupidity.

"PJ O'Donovan" wrote in message
om...
Earl Evleth wrote in message
...
On 31/07/04 22:49, in article ,
"John
Bermont" wrote:

Who was the Fuhrer?


A general term for leader. If one is traveling in tourist
sites in Germany, the leader of a tour group will call himself
the "fuhrer".

Since we are talking about the President of the USA we use
a capitalized form of "the Fuhrer" to show respect for Bush.
Who are his Gauleiters remain an open question.



Earl

Hey stupid- There is no word in the German language "fuhrer"! You
might be thinking of a word "fuehrer" because the word includes a "u"
with umlaut,
changed to "ue" in computer vernacular

Not surprised at your stupidity based on your political derangements
even though you claim to have lived a couple of hundred miles from
German speaking people,
for 30 years as you claim.

Enlighten your California fruit cake, worshipper, Diva, Evelyn,
whoever the hell she is, from the land of fruits and nuts, since she
takes pleasure in parroting your nonsense like "good one Earl" in
response to your stupidity.
=====================

PJ, why do you always come off so nasty? Earl seems to keep his level
of discourse several notches above yours. Are you and Tim frightened by
ideas that differ from yours?

Tom (in Georgia)