How do I avoid looking and acting American while traveling in Europe?

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:05:12 +0100, The Reids
wrote:

Following up to Falcon

Anyway, I've had my say; gung-ho "Gunner" will not be convinced; and he will
continue to troll with fatuous, unconvincing and misrepresentative argument.
So I'll be kill-filing the nutcase - and the rest of the thread - shortly.

You have a point.

It wasn't until I started "communicating" with right wing
americans that I started to hear this idea that democracy depends
upon an armed citizenry bandied about, bizarre.

Further demonstrating your ignorance of even your own history....and
the English Bill of Rights and English Common Law..
One wonders if perhaps the label "sheeple" should be assigned you as a
badge you could wear proudly.


http://www.pierrelemieux.org/greenwood-citizen.html

"There were thirteen specific complaints and the sixth of these, set
well above matters such as free elections, was that King James had
“caused several good subjects, being protestants, to be disarmed at
the same time when papists were both armed and imployed contrary to
law.” The Bill did not seek to disarm catholics, but merely to place
protestants on an equal footing by asserting that “the subjects which
are protestants may have arms for their defence, suitable to their
condition and. as allowed by law”.

This statement must also be taken in the context of its day. The right
to keep arms was a long established part of English Common Law but,
because the Common Law is capable of change by various mechanisms, the
right was not absolute and Charles II had modified it through his
Militia Act of 1662 which continued the practice of requiring subjects
to keep arms of a particular type according to their ‘condition and
degree’ -- that is their rank in society and their wealth.

The rights and liberties of Englishmen continued to expand under
Common Law. In the 17th century, many of the supposed rights did not,
in practice, extend to the bottom of the social ladder but by the 18th
century, Common Law rights were well established. and of such a nature
that Sir William Blackstone, in his Commentaries on the Laws of
England (1765) was in no doubt that the right to keep arms was a vital
part of the Common Law. Blackstone listed the rights or liberties of
Englishmen and showed that to vindicate these rights when attacked,
the Common Law provided that the subject was entitled to justice in
the courts, the right Of petitioning the king and parliament for
redress of grievance and, “the right of having and using arms for self
preservation and defence.”

It was Blackstone’s statement of the Common Law which formed the basis
of the American Constitution, for the revolutionaries complained that
their Common Law rights bad been violated by the Crown and, in the
light of their experiences at that time, they placed great emphasis on
their right to keep arms.

Constitutionalists might argue about whether in Britain, Statute law
can over-ride the basic principles of the Common Law, but in 1920 the
Government of Britain was in fear of revolution and documents such as
the. Cabinet Diaries reveal debates about the number of aircraft
available for use against insurgents within the British Isles. In that
climate, the registration of firearms (other than shotguns) was
imposed for the purpose of “ensuring that all arms are available for
redistribution to friends of the government”.

Canada....
http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Es...e/Guns.htm#fn9


Now I understand that American history and law is a bit much for you
to be aware of, so Ill let your extreme ignorance be excused. For
your Edification...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...lofrights.html

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be
infringed.

a considerable number more snipped

Notice what #2 on the list is? (Btw.."regulated" means well trained.
and for your next objection EG
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html


I should also point you to the words of the Founders who formed these
United States.....

http://adnetsolfp2.adnetsol.com/ssl_...r_2ndamend.cfm


So laddy..while your obvious ignorance was excusable, it is no longer
so.

Gunner


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Very well said.

Tim K

"Bill Bonde ( ``I could have nailed the St. Helena goat's pelt to the
deck'' )" wrote in message
...
Most people who die as the result of cars die in accidents and not on
purpose, the opposite being true with firearms. This suggests that
cars
are intrinsically way more dangerous than firearms.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:04:47 +0100, The Reids
wrote:

Following up to Gunner

Odd..I used a bayonet far more times in slicing meat, opening cans and
boxes, cutting bread etc than I plunged them into human bodies. Both
have a cutting edge and a point. Im curious..if a kitchen knife was
not designed to be plunged into human beings..how come so many of them
are used for exactly that? Far more than firearms btw.

the fact that other things are also dangerous does not make guns
good, will you never understand that?

The fact that other things are also dangerous does not make guns Bad.
Will you never understand that?

However..your emotional drivel is noted, examined and discarded.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:44:33 +0100, The Reids
wrote:

Following up to Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )

the fact that other things are also dangerous does not make guns
good, will you never understand that?

Life is dangerous. Won't you understand that just because something can
be misused doesn't make it bad?

Guns are designed to kill, whatever Gunner nitpicks about. That
makes them intrinsically bad, they have uses however, hunting and
if you must, sports shooting, although why people need to play
cowboys worries me.

No..not all guns are designed to kill. First false foundational
statement that makes the rest of your platform fatally flawed.

Your opinion about the various sports is noted. Opinions are like
assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.


The fact that life is dangerous does not make guns good, will you
never understand that?

The fact that life is dangerous does not make guns Bad, will you never
understand that? Once again, your opinion that they are bad, is
noted, examined and discarded.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:28:39 GMT, "Tim Kroesen"
wrote:

The fact that an item may be dangerous doesn't make it **bad**... When
will *you* understand?

Tim K


I hope Messer Reid is solely a pedestrian. Vehicles are inherently
dangerous..so they are Very bad. And must be done away with
immediately! Its for da children!
Cleaning supplies under the kitchen Sink? Swimming pools? I could go
on for hours.

Btw..one should note..that at least in the US, swimming pools and
choking to death on food are larger causes of death than firearms.

Ban Food Now! (Particularly ban English food..ewwwwww!)

Gunner


"The Reids" wrote in message
.. .
Following up to Gunner

Odd..I used a bayonet far more times in slicing meat, opening cans
and
boxes, cutting bread etc than I plunged them into human bodies. Both
have a cutting edge and a point. Im curious..if a kitchen knife was
not designed to be plunged into human beings..how come so many of
them
are used for exactly that? Far more than firearms btw.

the fact that other things are also dangerous does not make guns
good, will you never understand that?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a
spamtrap

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

"devil" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:19:26 -0400, BfB wrote:


By Marco R. della Cava, USA TODAY

As an A-list celebrity, actor Vince Vaughn employs an array of weapons
to
cope with hecklers, from a Saharan wit to a waiting limo.


But during a movie shoot recently in England, Vaughn found himself
repeatedly reaching for the same comeback. Three totemic words from the
attic of history: the Marshall Plan.

"I'd say one in three conversations wound up the same way, basically
that
'America is the devil.' So I'd ask folks to think about the Marshall
Plan a
bit and get back to me," says Vaughn, 32, referring to the Allied
blueprint
for the reconstruction of Europe after World War II. "In the end,
though, I
just had to tell people, 'I'm not having this discussion anymore.' "

Good luck. Self-interest does not call for gratitude.

But if you're heading overseas, be prepared to have it. Again and again.
If
the past 100 years were widely considered the American Century, this new
one
is fast shaping up as the Anti-American Century.

Self-inflicted. Time for you to get a president who will apologize for
what the current idiot has done.

You get an answer to US provocation, big surprise? What else did you
expect? That the rest of the world react like a nicely submissive colony?
Think again. This is a time for apologies.

Bigot

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:44:59 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote:

Al wrote:


All you have to do is compare violent crime rates with the US and other civilized
countries, especially the homicide rates.

Which is highest in cities with the strictest gun control.

Would that be a matter of them having the highest homicide rates because they have the strictest
gun control, or did they bring in the gun controls to try to deal with the problem?



That would be the result of increased crime after gun contrrol was
forced.

If your business was violent felony, wouldn't you rather be where the
victims are unarmed?

Strider

*Many* people had guns before 1920. BTW how do you propose restricting
guns legally as to reduce gun violence when the very people who most
abuse them won't respect such law to begin with...?

Tim K

"The Reids" wrote in message
...
Following up to Gunner

the question is "do you control guns"? Establishing there are
other ways people can be killed is not much of an argument.

Only if the "gun control" can be demonstrated to lower the homicide
rates significantly. In the case of the UK, the homicide rate
Increased after gun control was put into practice in the 1920s, and
has been steadily rising every since.

murder and crime rates have been generally increasing everywhere,
I doubt many had guns before 1920 to control but indeed, drugs
and relative wealth are probably bigger factors in violent crime
than guns but when you look at the number of people who get shot
in the US you don't find anyone wanting to go down your route. We
now have (by our standards) frequent drug war gun killings in UK,
removing the drugs issue would be the greatest help, this does
not however mean that removing the guns would not also help.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a
spamtrap

Apparently the Brits still have some issues over losing colonies to
armed citizens... Too bad for them they didn't implement 'gun control
in 1775...

Tim K

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote:
Only if the "gun control" can be demonstrated to lower the homicide
rates significantly. In the case of the UK, the homicide rate
Increased after gun control was put into practice in the 1920s, and
has been steadily rising every since.

Well, there's some good solid science. To add to your list of
grievances,
since gun control was implemented in the UK in the 1920s, there have
been
radical increases in skin cancer and mobile phone thefts, not to
mention the
loss of almost all the colonies.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu

The most common use of a firearm is *target shooting*, not suicide.

Tim K

"Tom Nelson" wrote in message
m.invalid...
In article , ``I could have nailed
the St. Helena goat's pelt to the deck''
wrote:
When average folks don't have guns to defend themselves, property
crimes
tend to go up.

Property crimes have been declining in both gun-friendly and
gun-control states. The most common use of a firearm is to commit
suicide.

Breaking into an occupied home in most of the US is like
asking to die.

I'm not aware of any state that allows a person to kill an unarmed
burglar, or to shoot to kill except to prevent the death or injury of
the shooter or a third party. In any case, burglaries occur every day
in gun-friendly states.