Just returned, HAL's ms Rotterdam in the Baltics

Diana--

I have to honestly say -- don't do it! The Z is the least successful
Caribbean cruise I have ever taken. Boredom city. Not even
classy/relaxing. They literally did nothing well, although I thought
the food was greatly improved from HAL of 5 years ago. I did love the
fat a__ suite at the back corner of the ship though.

I'm so jealous you got to see Guys and Dolls! Hmmm...need to check out
Site59.com and maybe spring for a pricey long weekend in London lol.

Off to the Amsterdam in Alaska in a few weeks....I vowed the only way
I'd do HAL again was destination oriented...and I'll get to Glacier Bay
this time! Hope y'all been well!

Jeff



D Ball wrote:

But I agree with you, a 7-day cruise on one of HAL's purpose-built Carib
ships, e.g., the Zuidy, must offer a cruise experience more similar to what
we've enjoyed on the other lines. I know many RTC friends have had a lot of
fun on those cruises.

Take care, Becca.

Diana

Will do! I'm all for that!

Karen wrote:
Jeff wrote:


I'm so jealous you got to see Guys and Dolls! Hmmm...need to check out
Site59.com and maybe spring for a pricey long weekend in London lol.


Jeff, take a look at either the BA or Virgin Atlantic web sites for
great deals on long weekend theatre/hotel/air packages.

Karen

Hi, Cathy.



I'm glad your HAL cruises have been a good match for your tastes and
interests. And actually, we don’t sound that different—we’re not big
partiers either, and we like the shows, use the gym, travel for itinerary,
etc. We simply found our Rotterdam experience on this particular voyage to
be…well, let me relate this story:



The first night aboard, a staffer confided that the staff and crew called
the Rotterdam “God’s Waiting Room.” I guess they thought we’d think that was
funny as, like you, most of us were among the under-50 minority. By the end
of the cruise, I had to agree with the nickname, but not because of the age
of the majority. It was HAL’s spiritless approach to so many things that
stamped out all hope of “joie de vivre” on that cruise.



We knew not to expect a lively atmosphere. I’m not trying to say they need
to cater more to kids or have hairy leg contests. And, of course, I didn’t
mean there had to be—or that I wanted—a non-stop, wild rock and roll party,
LOL. But yes, I most definitely believe there is a significant disconnect
between HAL and its client base when there is a failure to recognize that
the 55- to 70-year-old passengers on board that ship (without question, the
predominant age group) were in their teens and 20's during the musical
revolution of The 50's and 60's. Rock and roll in some form or fashion is
the music of their formative years…why does HAL think folks who were once
boppers and went to Woodstock now prefer a steady diet of the music of their
parents’ era? And regarding the musical tastes of those parents, as our
82-year-old friend pointed out, she naturally got hooked on rock and roll
listening to it all those years her kids were growing up.



We always admire the talent and breadth of the on-board musicians. I’m a
classical fan, and the group of classical musicians on the Rotterdam was
very talented. But I don’t want to sit and listen to classical every night!
And that’s really my point. I think it is reasonable to expect HAL to have
furnished a wider variety of featured musical genres during a 12-night
cruise, whether jazz, big band, swing dancing, Sinatra crooning, a Gershwin
and Porter set, rock and roll…you name it. Instead, with few exceptions,
there was a certain stale “live Muzak” sameness to the offerings. Oh, they
did have line dancing one night, LOL. Line dancing must be on the Top 10
List of Required Cruise Activities right up there with bingo and art
auctions (neither of which interests us). But no karaoke…that was a cruise
first for us (but another thing we didn’t miss).



food, like my rock and roll example, I wasn’t stuck on Indian. It just
came to mind because we discussed the scarcity of Indian and other Asian
cuisines with our head waiter from India. He blamed the older clients’
preferences for the scarcity of Indian and other Asian cuisines. You know,
when I was growing up, there wasn’t a single Chinese restaurant in my town,
much less Indian, Thai, sushi, etc. But in this millennium, and I daresay
for decades now, even small town America has grown accustomed to enjoying
Asian specialties. The idea that “blue hairs” prefer bland food or find
non-Western cuisines too exotic is not only rubbish, it’s patronizing.
Again, over the course of 12 nights catering to a mostly well-traveled,
sophisticated audience, a little pizzazz on the menu is an absolute
necessity, IMO, of course.



There were a few signature Indonesian dishes, the traditional Dutch night,
and the occasional Italian offering. Other than that, it was fairly
uninspired continental prepared in a rather dated fashion, heavy on sauces.
There were few fresh veggies and salad greens. The fruit soups and desserts
were quite good, and the bread was good when we had it during our main
seating because it was fresh and hot. There was no spa or heart healthy
menu, and no nutritional guide to the menu offerings, which did surprise me
because an older crowd is naturally going to be looking at sodium, fat,
carbs, etc. In fact, I found many preparations to be salty. The quality of
the ingredients was average to above average, with the exception of the
beef, which ranged from poor in the lido to just average in the specialty
restaurant.

Yes, we loved the itinerary, that is why we chose that cruise. No, we
weren't the only ship in any port...but I think that is a function of the
short Baltics season. HAL secured a few advantageous docking positions that
other lines did not, but it also had a few "bad" docking positions. HAL had
the nerve to charge as much as $5 per person each way for shuttle transport
from the port to town and back. Celebrity didn't charge for port shuttles in
the Med last year, and I haven't read any Baltics reviews of other lines
that charged for those shuttles. It wasn’t a huge biggie in terms of our
day…we just added the walk to our in-port walk-a-thon. But HAL‘s conscious
decision to zing those who didn’t book their ship’s tours really aggravated
me, especially considering they had most of their independent pax over a
barrel since few would add 50 minutes of walking to their day.



Speaking of dollars, yes, in my lay opinion, HAL was having trouble filling
this ship. A cruise line can only get in so many cruises during the short
Baltics season, with June being peak (White Nights) and July right behind
it. Don’t you think they should have sold this one out several months in
advance at the latest? Sane people usually plan extended international trips
farther in advance than we do. Instead, we bought our cabins during a
sale roughly 45 days out, as did every other poster to our Cruise Critic
Roll Call, at per diems noticeably lower than what the competition was
charging on mostly less-desirable (in my opinion) itineraries.



Cathy, don’t mistake me. I’m not whining. We certainly received bang for the
buck. The itinerary made for a fabulous travel adventure—the point of the
trip for us. And there was a lot to like about our onboard experience. All
in all, we had a wonderful time and are very fortunate to have been able to
take that trip.



Diana

Hi, Dick. Thanks for sharing the information. It's interesting to hear the
glasses have actually been around more than 10 years now.

I hope you, Danni and Heidi have an interesting cruise in the works. I don't
think I recall you cruising since the SOE upgrades have been implemented. I
will be interested in your opinion. I think Heidi curling up on the floor of
Explorations would add a very warm touch to an already cozy and clubby
library atmosphere. Have you gotten the idea that I loved that space, LOL??!

Regards,

Diana

D Ball wrote:

Hi, neighbor, good to hear from you. I am still looking forward to
cruising with you one day--but let's make it Princess, LOL.

There are enough Texans in the group, we could have a group cruise out
of Galveston. Other people could join us, but we would have to supply
the armadillo's for the armadillo races.

Becca

Cruise food is no biggie, but it is nice to have something decent to
eat. Sammy has a hard time finding anything to eat on the lunch buffets
on Royal Caribbean, and it sounds like he would have a hard time on HAL,
too. It is even tougher when you are traveling with children, who tend
to be picky eaters. The Carnival ships have never disappointed me with
their food, neither has Princess.

Becca


D Ball wrote:

I'm glad your HAL cruises have been a good match for your tastes and
interests. And actually, we don’t sound that different—we’re not big
partiers either, and we like the shows, use the gym, travel for itinerary,
etc. We simply found our Rotterdam experience on this particular voyage to
be…well, let me relate this story:



The first night aboard, a staffer confided that the staff and crew called
the Rotterdam “God’s Waiting Room.” I guess they thought we’d think that was
funny as, like you, most of us were among the under-50 minority. By the end
of the cruise, I had to agree with the nickname, but not because of the age
of the majority. It was HAL’s spiritless approach to so many things that
stamped out all hope of “joie de vivre” on that cruise.



We knew not to expect a lively atmosphere. I’m not trying to say they need
to cater more to kids or have hairy leg contests. And, of course, I didn’t
mean there had to be—or that I wanted—a non-stop, wild rock and roll party,
LOL. But yes, I most definitely believe there is a significant disconnect
between HAL and its client base when there is a failure to recognize that
the 55- to 70-year-old passengers on board that ship (without question, the
predominant age group) were in their teens and 20's during the musical
revolution of The 50's and 60's. Rock and roll in some form or fashion is
the music of their formative years…why does HAL think folks who were once
boppers and went to Woodstock now prefer a steady diet of the music of their
parents’ era? And regarding the musical tastes of those parents, as our
82-year-old friend pointed out, she naturally got hooked on rock and roll
listening to it all those years her kids were growing up.



We always admire the talent and breadth of the on-board musicians. I’m a
classical fan, and the group of classical musicians on the Rotterdam was
very talented. But I don’t want to sit and listen to classical every night!
And that’s really my point. I think it is reasonable to expect HAL to have
furnished a wider variety of featured musical genres during a 12-night
cruise, whether jazz, big band, swing dancing, Sinatra crooning, a Gershwin
and Porter set, rock and roll…you name it. Instead, with few exceptions,
there was a certain stale “live Muzak” sameness to the offerings. Oh, they
did have line dancing one night, LOL. Line dancing must be on the Top 10
List of Required Cruise Activities right up there with bingo and art
auctions (neither of which interests us). But no karaoke…that was a cruise
first for us (but another thing we didn’t miss).



food, like my rock and roll example, I wasn’t stuck on Indian. It just
came to mind because we discussed the scarcity of Indian and other Asian
cuisines with our head waiter from India. He blamed the older clients’
preferences for the scarcity of Indian and other Asian cuisines. You know,
when I was growing up, there wasn’t a single Chinese restaurant in my town,
much less Indian, Thai, sushi, etc. But in this millennium, and I daresay
for decades now, even small town America has grown accustomed to enjoying
Asian specialties. The idea that “blue hairs” prefer bland food or find
non-Western cuisines too exotic is not only rubbish, it’s patronizing.
Again, over the course of 12 nights catering to a mostly well-traveled,
sophisticated audience, a little pizzazz on the menu is an absolute
necessity, IMO, of course.



There were a few signature Indonesian dishes, the traditional Dutch night,
and the occasional Italian offering. Other than that, it was fairly
uninspired continental prepared in a rather dated fashion, heavy on sauces.
There were few fresh veggies and salad greens. The fruit soups and desserts
were quite good, and the bread was good when we had it during our main
seating because it was fresh and hot. There was no spa or heart healthy
menu, and no nutritional guide to the menu offerings, which did surprise me
because an older crowd is naturally going to be looking at sodium, fat,
carbs, etc. In fact, I found many preparations to be salty. The quality of
the ingredients was average to above average, with the exception of the
beef, which ranged from poor in the lido to just average in the specialty
restaurant.

Yes, we loved the itinerary, that is why we chose that cruise. No, we
weren't the only ship in any port...but I think that is a function of the
short Baltics season. HAL secured a few advantageous docking positions that
other lines did not, but it also had a few "bad" docking positions. HAL had
the nerve to charge as much as $5 per person each way for shuttle transport
from the port to town and back. Celebrity didn't charge for port shuttles in
the Med last year, and I haven't read any Baltics reviews of other lines
that charged for those shuttles. It wasn’t a huge biggie in terms of our
day…we just added the walk to our in-port walk-a-thon. But HAL‘s conscious
decision to zing those who didn’t book their ship’s tours really aggravated
me, especially considering they had most of their independent pax over a
barrel since few would add 50 minutes of walking to their day.



Speaking of dollars, yes, in my lay opinion, HAL was having trouble filling
this ship. A cruise line can only get in so many cruises during the short
Baltics season, with June being peak (White Nights) and July right behind
it. Don’t you think they should have sold this one out several months in
advance at the latest? Sane people usually plan extended international trips
farther in advance than we do. Instead, we bought our cabins during a
sale roughly 45 days out, as did every other poster to our Cruise Critic
Roll Call, at per diems noticeably lower than what the competition was
charging on mostly less-desirable (in my opinion) itineraries.



Cathy, don’t mistake me. I’m not whining. We certainly received bang for the
buck. The itinerary made for a fabulous travel adventure—the point of the
trip for us. And there was a lot to like about our onboard experience. All
in all, we had a wonderful time and are very fortunate to have been able to
take that trip.



Diana

"D Ball" wrote in message
...
Greetings, RTC'ers,

I hope everyone is enjoying a great summer!

We just returned from a 12-night cruise on HAL's ms Rotterdam from
Rotterdam to Copenhagen with stops in Oslo, Norway; Arhus, Denmark;
Warnemunde, Germany; Tallinn, Estonia; St. Petersburg, Russia; Helsinki,
Finland; and Stockholm, Sweden. We spent time in The Netherlands
pre-cruise and in Copenhagen and London post-cruise. We traveled as a
party of 5 adults and 3 kids spanning the ages 12 to a very active 82.


Hi Diana,
I very much enjoyed reading your review..what a wonderful itinerary!
I think if you are going to try HAL again, I would consider the new
Westerdam. We have taken her, the Statendam and the Ryndam...Of the three,
she seemed the liveliest..perhaps it was the Mediterranean itinerary. But
the Westerdam had more of the variety of music that you found lacking on the
Rotterdam. The Statendam had Frank Sinatra crooning in the background
in the Lido Buffet...We enjoy all the Dam ships because of their size...easy
to find where you need to go!

I know what you mean about those *oh so comfortable* mattresses and we too,
enjoyed all that space in Explorations with a very extensive library, game
tables, head phones, puzzle game tables, internet cafe etc, plus the
Exploration Cafe...It was more like three rooms without partitions with a
coffee bar and had a lovely ambiance.

It had to be because of the Indian chef on your ship, as we had a much
larger variety of food on our menu, both in the dining room and the
buffet..But no one* does* food better than Carnival ..at least on the latest
cruises that we have taken with them.. We did not have Dutch Night on the
Ryndam as we did on the other HAL ships..We found passengers of all ages on
the Dam ships...not many very young children but quite few 10 years and up.

All in all, you sound as if you had a great time, despite the little flaws
here and there... don't give up on HAL and try their other ships. Our
Statendam and Ryndam cruise were both to Alaska..While there last month, the
Oosterdam was in harbor in Sitka and I talked to some of the passengers and
they all spoke very positively about her, so perhaps she may be our next HAL
ship. even though she is a bit larger than the others we have taken.

--Jean

"Becca" wrote in message
...
Cruise food is no biggie, but it is nice to have something decent to
eat. Sammy has a hard time finding anything to eat on the lunch buffets
on Royal Caribbean, and it sounds like he would have a hard time on HAL,
too. It is even tougher when you are traveling with children, who tend
to be picky eaters. The Carnival ships have never disappointed me with
their food, neither has Princess.

Actually, HAL is great for picky children type eaters. They always have
hamburgers, they always have macaroni and cheese, they will make pasta in
butter, or with sauce. They have make your own taco/burrito bars by the
pool, so my picky eater could make a bean burrito or two every day. They
have cheese pizza for lunch and all afternoon. The picky eaters it won't
impress are those looking for authentic asian (other than Indonesian) or
spicy foods. If you are looking for low salt, or low fat, or special diets
you can tell the maitre d or waiter and they will fill you in on what is
already made that way, or what they can make to suit your taste. I've never
been disappointed by HAL food. But then again, I just as I don't expect
good chinese food in small villages in France, I don't expect good Indian on
a cruise ship. It would be a nice surprise.

Hi, Jean,

Nice to hear from you and that you had a great Alaskan trip! Did you write
one of your famous reviews? I did not attempt to catch up on a month's worth
of RTC, but if you did a review, I'll certainly find it in the Google
archives. I imagine we experienced similar climes--refreshing, wasn't it?
Actually, it was too cool for me in Scandanvia. I do not consider it prime
summertime weather when you have to wear a sweater or jacket all the time.
But then again, I am a crazy person who loves our hot and sticky Texas Gulf
Coast climate.

Thanks for understanding my comments, as I hate to sound like a complainer.
You know we always have a great time and feel strongly that travel is the
best education we can give our kids. Speaking of which, they had more fun on
the Dam ship that we old folks did! There weren't a lot of kids on that
cruise, of course, but our teen daughter hit it off with several other teens
from the outset. One At Sea day mid-cruise, she and a young man surprised us
by putting together a lunch for the parents (us) and his grandparents (who
had taken him on the trip). What a neat experience! We were traveling with
our son's best friend/family, so the boys were set, plus there was a handful
of other delightful kids in that tween/young teen age group. The
controversial SOE installation of an enhanced teen "hang out" resulted in
two absolutely fabulous spaces for young people to enjoy on this ship, one
an up top thatched roof sort of deck nook complete with hot tub
appropriately called Oasis and the other a stylish inside space.

So are you and Ed doing this season's version of the Sleazy or MOAGC or GGC
or all three??!

We did have that unexpectedly positive first Carnival experience in June
(okay, so I was one of those Carnival snobs 'til I tried it!), so I am
guessing we'll give them another try for our next cruise.

Diana