Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:33:28 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, B Vaughan wrote:

Also learning to pronounce them is not terribly difficult. English has
tones as well, used to distinguish between a statement and a question,

But we (I believe in all european languages at least) apply tones to
sentences, not to single words or syllables. I have always been quite
afraid of tonal languages.

It's really not as hard as it would seem. Of course, maybe my tones
were laughable and the Chinese were too polite to laugh.

I seem to remember reading that Norwegian is also a tonal language,
but I doubt that their tones make a difference in the meaning of
words.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...


Eh? I'm a journalist and I even get stories from major news agencies which
say "The company announced Tuesday that a new director had been
appointed..." or similar.



Lots wrong there. I hate passive voice, but people seem to think that it
sounds more "formal." Your example above was probably written by some young
PR intern, or some recent college graduate who majored in psychology and
can't find another job. When I was in journalism school 20 years ago, those
studying PR had to write just as much as those studying print. Based on what
I've seen in the last few years, I don't think that's still true.

Sarah

Hatunen wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:08:12 -0600, "spamfree"
wrote:

In Canada, if a job posting calls for applicants to be bilingual,
it means French and English.

You mean Quebecoise and English.

You mean Québecois and American.

A better description would be Québecois and North American,
as Canadians and Americans speak almost the exact same language.
And if we are going that far, then we need to acknowledge that
Australians speak yet another dialect, so there are at least three
major dialects of English: UK, NA, Aussie/NZ.

You left out Indian.

And me! Hiberno-English is distinctly different from British English.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/

B Vaughan wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:56:25 +0200, Dave Frightens Me
wrote:

On 24 Aug 2006 14:56:02 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:

You have to be totally fluent in Chinese before it is any commercial
use - but people who are fluent and who have law, business, IT, etc.
skills are in huge demand.

I have spent quite some time in Hong Kong, and never needed it, except
for talking to someone poorly educated, like a taxi driver or
waitress.

Hong Kong's official language was English until recently, and its de
facto spoken language was Cantonese. When I used to go there, it was
much easier to find someone who spoke English than Mandarin Chinese.
Your average taxi driver almost surely spoke Cantonese. Now that Hong
Kong has reverted to Chinese rule, I imagine that Mandarin is being
seriously taught beginning in elementary school.

A lot of Hong Kong's middle-class were bilingual, but many of them
(something like 10% of the population) emigrated around 1997,
especially to Canada.

A large part of the remaining population are recent or relatively
recent arrivals from mainland China, and they tend to be poorer and
speak only Chinese.

5% of the population are Western expatriates, and another 10% of the
population are immigrants from Asian countries other than China -
especially Indonesia and the Phillipines, and many of the non-Chinese
Asian immigrants speak English.

spamfree:
so there are at least three
major dialects of English: UK, NA, Aussie/NZ.

a) Which type of UK english? What about cockney?
b) Wouldn't you like to include South African english?

--
Erick
B&B Ardane - http://bed-and-breakfast.ardane.com

english spoken, as well
"what dialect?"
well....yours.

A better description would be Québecois and North American,
as Canadians and Americans speak almost the exact same language.

But do all US Americans speak the same English ?

No, absolutely not. I will probably forget some but here are the major
language variations in the USA: West Coast, Southern, Northeastern,
Northern, and Midwestern. The Northeast, especially Boston, has
a nasal accent. Southerners can be impossible to understand even for
native-born Americans. Alabama residents can be impossible to
understand, as you wrote, but Mississippi residents are just as bad.
But even this is regional. Huntsville, Alabama might as well be in
Illinois, an oasis of neutral accents in an otherwise Southern state, due
to the large number of non-Southerners who moved there. The
Carolinas and Virginia have a delightful light Southern accent. (well,
at least the women do :-) ) Northerners can often sound like
Canadians (I grew up in the North). Midwesterners generally have
the most neutral accent in the country and all of our major news-readers
have a Midwestern accent. California is a world all its own and is the
source for many of our teenagers' stupid phrases.

But the UK has regional differences as well. I have no idea what
areas these are, but some people in England have a very mild accent.
Londoners can have a very strong accent. I know that Russia has
regional differences as well. In most of Russia, the word for sugar
is the word found in the dictionary. In Moscow the word for sand
is used for granulated sugar and the word for sugar is only used for
sugar cubes.

so there are at least three
major dialects of English: UK, NA, Aussie/NZ.

a) Which type of UK english? What about cockney?
b) Wouldn't you like to include South African english?

If we get into sub-country accents, then we'd need to make a LONG
list. You are correct, but cockney is to England as Boston is to the
USA.

I've never been to SA. I assumed it was similar to UK or Aussie, but
that's why I wrote "at least three."

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:49:17 +0200, B wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:15:10 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Dave Frightens Me wrote:

Especially if you already know another romance language. I can read
Portuguese, and usually pick up the gist of what they are saying.

- I can read portuguese and other languages (catalan, or italian
dialects) with decent understanding ...

... BUT I had the definite impression that spoken portuguese
(in Portugal) was almost not understandable, not because of
the speed, but because so many sounds were altered or perturbed
with respect to the written form

I agree with regard to the spoken language.

Me too. I can't make head nor tale of it when it's spoken.
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:49:16 +0200, B wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:56:25 +0200, Dave Frightens Me
wrote:

On 24 Aug 2006 14:56:02 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:

You have to be totally fluent in Chinese before it is any commercial
use - but people who are fluent and who have law, business, IT, etc.
skills are in huge demand.

I have spent quite some time in Hong Kong, and never needed it, except
for talking to someone poorly educated, like a taxi driver or
waitress.

Hong Kong's official language was English until recently, and its de
facto spoken language was Cantonese. When I used to go there, it was
much easier to find someone who spoke English than Mandarin Chinese.
Your average taxi driver almost surely spoke Cantonese. Now that Hong
Kong has reverted to Chinese rule, I imagine that Mandarin is being
seriously taught beginning in elementary school.

It hasn't changed a great deal according in this regard according to
my friends who are still there. Mandarin may be taught, but it's
English that people really want.
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:21:18 +0100, Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:51:21 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote:

"Dave Frightens Me" wrote in
message

Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few
different nouns, and a different accent!

And some appalling verbs, like "gotten".

Forget/forgot/forgotten ?

Oddly no one says "I've gotten to do that."
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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