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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
Not This Time
Published 01/27/2007 "A new general, David Petraeus, is taking over in Iraq with a credible new strategy, counterinsurgency. Four decades ago, General Creighton Abrams became the American commander in Vietnam, also with a new strategy. It called for taking and holding the villages and hamlets of South Vietnam. In a word, it was counterinsurgency, and it worked. Now in Iraq, Petraeus has as good a chance of success, starting with the pacification of Baghdad, as Abrams had. And the painful lesson of Vietnam applies in Iraq: Don't give up when victory is at hand. Those in Congress who advocate retreat in Iraq refuse to acknowledge this lesson. And they may have their way, whatever Petraeus accomplishes. With their calls for troop withdrawals and fund cutoffs and their antiwar resolutions, they have put America on a slippery slope in Iraq. And we know where it leads: to defeat while victory remains quite possible. This happened in six descending steps in Vietnam, and today's coalition in Congress of antiwar Democrats and vacillating Republicans has started pushing us down that dangerous slope. The first step is, when the war goes poorly, public support falls and politicians dramatically increase their criticism. In Vietnam, this occurred after the Tet offensive in 1968. In Iraq, it occurred gradually at first, then rapidly once violence and chaos in Baghdad flared over the last year. Step two consists of growing criticism of the foreign government that America is supporting. In Vietnam, the target was the government of President Thieu. In Iraq, it's the elected government of Prime Minister Maliki. Senator Hillary Clinton, for instance, insists Maliki has failed to seek reconciliation between Shia and Sunnis--that is, a political solution. "I do not support cutting funding for American troops, but I do support cutting funding for Iraqi forces if the Iraqi government does not meet set conditions," she said two weeks ago. The third step involves resolutions and threats. This week, the Senate will take up resolutions opposing the addition of 21,500 troops to Iraq, a buildup Petraeus says is indispensable to his plan to secure Baghdad. If resolutions fail to force President Bush to begin winding down the war, Senator Joe Biden promises the Senate will take stronger measures. In the Vietnam era, congressional critics passed limits on funding. The fourth step--the one we're approaching now in Iraq--would put restrictions on troop deployments. In 1970, the Cooper-Church amendment sought to bar funding for any American troops in Cambodia, a sanctuary for invading forces from North Vietnam. Today, Hillary Clinton would put a cap on the number of American soldiers in Iraq. Webb, echoing many others in Congress, said withdrawals should begin "in short order." Step five is the last resort of war opponents: a fund cutoff over the protests of the president. In Vietnam, it came in 1974, after American combat troops had been withdrawn, but with the United States still supporting and funding the South Vietnamese government. What's striking is how much the congressional majority then resembles today's antiwar coalition, mostly Democrats but with more than a handful of Republicans. True, only a minority in Congress favors a cutoff today, but that bloc could grow. Step six: the collapse. In Southeast Asia, it led to the deaths of more than two million people in Vietnam and Cambodia after the Communist triumph. The members of Congress whose actions prompted the collapse expressed no shame or embarrassment for having betrayed allies. And practically no one held them accountable. Their perfidy was greeted with silence. " |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
PJ O'Donovan wrote:
Not This Time Published 01/27/2007 "A new general, David Petraeus, is taking over in Iraq with a credible new strategy, counterinsurgency. Four decades ago, General Creighton Abrams became the American commander in Vietnam, also with a new strategy. It called for taking and holding the villages and hamlets of South Vietnam. In a word, it was counterinsurgency, and it worked. Now in Iraq, Of course it did. Now finish watching your Rambo movies to see how the US *really* won the war in Vietnam. -- Dirk http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4 http://www.resonancefm.com |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
Let is be knownst that on 28 Jan 2007 11:19:33 -0800, "PJ O'Donovan"
writted: Not This Time Published 01/27/2007 "A new general, David Petraeus, is taking over in Iraq with a credible new strategy, counterinsurgency. Four decades ago, General Creighton Abrams became the American commander in Vietnam, also with a new strategy. It called for taking and holding the villages and hamlets of South Vietnam. When will you realise, PJ, that the war is lost? -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
Deeply Filled Mortician wrote: Let is be knownst that on 28 Jan 2007 11:19:33 -0800, "PJ O'Donovan" writted: Not This Time Published 01/27/2007 "A new general, David Petraeus, is taking over in Iraq with a credible new strategy, counterinsurgency. Four decades ago, General Creighton Abrams became the American commander in Vietnam, also with a new strategy. It called for taking and holding the villages and hamlets of South Vietnam. When will you realise, PJ, that the war is lost? More to the point, when will the moron in our White House realize it? |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
On Jan 28, 9:52 pm, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote: When will you realise, PJ, that the war is lost?More to the point, when will the moron in our White House realize it?- The present war likely should never have been started (under the pretext of intelligence which proved false if unintentiionally so) and the inability of Washington to forecast the current situtation is unforgivable. But it is not so much that the war is lost as that the credibility of the United States as an ally was severely damaaged in VietNam and will be lost absolutely in Iraq if we flee the battleround now. Friends are helpful; it is not good to have none. Larry in London but usually in Berkeley (where the VietNam war was really lost) |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
PJ O'Donovan wrote:
Not This Time Published 01/27/2007 "A new general, David Petraeus, is taking over in Iraq with a credible new strategy, counterinsurgency. Four decades ago, General Creighton Abrams became the American commander in Vietnam, also with a new strategy. It called for taking and holding the villages and hamlets of South Vietnam. In a word, it was counterinsurgency, and it worked. Uh-huh. You could tell that by the way everyone scrambled onto the helicopters in Saigon |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
"A new general, David Petraeus, is taking over in Iraq with a
credible new strategy, counterinsurgency. Four decades ago, General Creighton Abrams became the American commander in Vietnam, also with a new strategy. It called for taking and holding the villages and hamlets of South Vietnam. In a word, it was counterinsurgency, and it worked. PeeJay Uh-huh. You could tell that by the way everyone scrambled onto the helicopters in Saigon Joan Aix Myth: The American military was running for their lives during the fall of Saigon in April 1975. The picture of a Huey helicopter billed as military helicopter evacuating people from the top of what was billed as being the U.S. Embassy in Saigon during the last week of April 1975 during the fall of Saigon helped to establish this myth. Fact: This famous picture is the property of Corbus-Bettman Archives. It was originally a UPI photograph that was taken by an Englishman, Mr. Hugh Van Ess ( or a Dutchman living in England). Here are some facts to clear up that poor job of reporting by the news media. Facts about the helicopter at the fall of Saigon It was a "civilian" (Air America) Huey not Army or Marines. It was NOT the U.S. Embassy. The building is the Pittman Apartments. The U.S. Embassy and its helipad were much larger. The evacuees were Vietnamese not American military. The photo was symbolic of revisionism by you left wing useful idiots of the time. |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
"John of Aix" wrote in message ... PJ O'Donovan wrote: Not This Time Published 01/27/2007 "A new general, David Petraeus, is taking over in Iraq with a credible new strategy, counterinsurgency. Four decades ago, General Creighton Abrams became the American commander in Vietnam, also with a new strategy. It called for taking and holding the villages and hamlets of South Vietnam. In a word, it was counterinsurgency, and it worked. Uh-huh. You could tell that by the way everyone scrambled onto the helicopters in Saigon I don't think the US had any major force in Vietnam at that point. They were all withdrawn in 73 under the Paris peace agreement. I believe a division of Rangers(?) were hurriedly landed from ships to protect escaping US civilian and diplomatic staff. This included the helicopters seen in the famous footage. Look very closely and you'll see that the paniced scenes were of Vietnamese people TRYING desperately to escape - the US kept coming back for them until it was too late. The staff (other than the marine guards) were evacuated quite early. There is a famous quote: The US forces never lost a single major battle in Vietnam - but lost the war. Now with 30 more years you can add that the communist state failed anyway. There are probably more US commercial interests in Vietnam now than during the war. Vietnamese industry is almost completely dependant on Western commerce. South Vietnamese have reverted to capitalism faster than their Northern brethren and are now listed as 4 times richer than the northern "True Believers". Moral of the story: Just contain the revolution to the core country and wait patiently for it to self destruct. Pity they didn't take that approach in Afghanistan/Iraq. Rj. |
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Not this time: The Lesson of Vietnam
"DBDriver" wrote in message ... (snipped) Moral of the story: Just contain the revolution to the core country and wait patiently for it to self destruct. Pity they didn't take that approach in Afghanistan/Iraq. Funny you should say that. I immediately thought of Britain going the same way only in slow motion. Self destructing with Socialism. The country has almost reached the point of Vietnam in 1975 but with being taken over by the world's black and nutmeg coloured refuse. Next few months should see it in free fall. But then what? Just pray that America doesn't bail them out this time. |
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