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#151
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On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:16:37 +0100, The Reids
wrote: Following up to Jim Ley The Netherlands and Germany have run very well with coalitions, never any extreme policies, no them and us attitudes ... Er, I thought you were saying that the Netherlands constitution vote was due to the populace voting against the establishment? That sounds exactly like a them and us attitude in the political parties. the "them and us" in this case is the yah boo politics you get in the UK and which is possibly mitigated by PR and coallitions. Party v party not establishment v population. Ah right, well I know exactly which one I'd prefer... Jim. |
#152
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On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:16:38 +0100, The Reids
wrote: Following up to those who didn't read the constitution until this part heard enough about its consistence in TV debates, notably from the no vote socialists, and took the occasion to finally... gave their opinion about it. That's the way it works, isn't it? The average person does not read the document but listens to debate by those who have. Voting is a pretty clumsy way of deciding on important issues. All it really does is give people a sense of power in one short, imprecise shot. If people could actually make their voices heard on these issues more readily and more clearly, then they wouldn't need to store up their frustrations and vent it in one tick which ultimately doesn't reflect on how people actually feel. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
#153
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"The Reids" wrote in message ... Following up to Miss L. Toe All politicians lie. When did Tony Benn lie ? good one, an exception. And from the other side When did Maggie actually lie ? |
#154
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"Miss L. Toe" wrote:
"The Reids" wrote in message .. . Following up to Miss L. Toe All politicians lie. When did Tony Benn lie ? good one, an exception. And from the other side When did Maggie actually lie ? When she said there was no such thing as society. -- PB The return address has been MUNGED |
#155
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"Martin" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:06:01 +0100, "Miss L. Toe" wrote: "The Reids" wrote in message .. . Following up to Miss L. Toe All politicians lie. When did Tony Benn lie ? good one, an exception. And from the other side When did Maggie actually lie ? about her son's part in arms deals? But that was after she was a politician |
#156
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"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message eenews.net... "Martin" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:06:01 +0100, "Miss L. Toe" wrote: "The Reids" wrote in message .. . Following up to Miss L. Toe All politicians lie. When did Tony Benn lie ? good one, an exception. And from the other side When did Maggie actually lie ? about her son's part in arms deals? But that was after she was a politician This raises the question: "What is a politician?" She didn't cease to be a politician when she was stabbed in the back and shoved out by her own party as PM.. History may well show that Mrs T was one of the most opportunistic politicians of the late twentieth century.... Alan Harrison |
#157
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Following up to Miss L. Toe
When did Tony Benn lie ? good one, an exception. And from the other side When did Maggie actually lie ? when she quoted the bible on gaining office, cant remember the actual quote but I have a feeling she didn't live up to it? I also cant remember what she actually said about the Belgrano and other things at the start of the Falklands, I just remember "Rejoice". -- Mike Reid Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap |
#158
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Following up to Miss L. Toe
When did Maggie actually lie ? about her son's part in arms deals? But that was after she was a politician OK, she probably said "love honour and obey" to Dennis. -- Mike Reid Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap |
#159
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What she quoted on arrival at No10 was a prayer from St Francis of
Assisi. I always thought that what she had in common with him was that it was for the birds. But although I couldn't stand the woman, to be fair , the 'rejoice' remark came after the (entirely bloodless) landing on South Georgia, which was meant to signal that the whole task force operation was serious and capable of doing the job that was intended, just as the Argentinians' original takeover of S Georgia was a test of British responses. What she always said about the Belgrano was that, in the judgment of everyone involved, it was a threat to British forces - and if the Argentinians hadn't launched a naval invasion in the first place the situation wouldn't have arisen. PJW On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:53:39 +0100, The Reids wrote: when she quoted the bible on gaining office, cant remember the actual quote but I have a feeling she didn't live up to it? I also cant remember what she actually said about the Belgrano and other things at the start of the Falklands, I just remember "Rejoice". -- Mike Reid Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap |
#160
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I had never seen SO MUCH political debates organised on TV before and everywhere else in fact... That's what makes me doubtfull for the french to change their mind because I believe that the vote was really democratical in the moderate center who really makes the choice. The day before the vote I told to my father that the no will win because all the people (generally from popular background) I heard talking about it in the street were against. On TV they were often refering to art. X.y or Y.z so I was obliged to constantly use the booklet of the constitution to verify their statement... Finally I gave up and virtually didn't watched TV at all during the last week... The problem is that several articles were talking of the same thing in different parts, sometimes favourably in a general statement (objectifs/targets of the union or preambule of a part) and sometimes in a more disfavourable way when it was coming to the real competence of the union about it, notably their application through the european laws (I finally understood that they were replacing the directives...). The highly complete rights garantied in the Charter of liberties and their difference of treatment in part III was for example puzzling since you could find a general statement and its contradiction. Since quotations of both kinds were of course used by both... contradictors in TV debates and the campaign papers of the parties and sometimes with inexactitude it was difficult to understand. Journalists should have asked to lawyers to pick up the little dozen of litigious points and to explain them very precisely, in a juridical way, to the public. Many times too some generous statements were followed later in part III with too many explicit market tough interdictions. For the "services publics" for ex. wich preoccupied a lot the french, I've been unable to understand their final fate, since the expression appears indeed in the Charter but IMO nowhere else in part III... So I supposed... that those finally choosed to enter (at least now by co-decison...) in the union competence will be renamed enterprise and submitted to the pityless conditions of the competition chapter..., but I was unable to understand what would exactly remain. Nevertheless those who pretended that the contested disposition of the Bolkenstein directive, concerning the application of the law of the country of origin, was in the constitution were lying. On that point I'm very amased to hear that the critic of that precise disposition (if really in the directive which I didn't read) is taken with irony in anglo-saxon medias. That would mean for example that an afghan or a cuban coming to USA shoud be submitted only to his own legislation for everything concerning his work and production even on the US territory. That would pose enormous problems in matters of consuption rights of the client or quality of the product... and that would in fact destroy the US legislation simply because there would be as many legislation applied as there are foreign countries of which the lower will prevail and of course nobody able to control their respect... Obviously you must apply the legislation of the place were you live and work unless you decide to unify those of different countries. The only way to change that is IMO the harmonisation for ex. through the EU directives... didier Meurgues |
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