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#11
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Delta 767s
Ft. Myers is a particularly busy destination for DL. If you look at the
timetable for RSW, virtually all of DL's flights are on 767 a/c. The Ft. Myers/Naples area is popular with wealthy Americans and Canadians who will pay a premium for good service on comfortable aircraft. Another factor is the congestion at the present RSW terminal. Ft. Myers is building an entirely new and much larger terminal across the field from the present terminal. There is just no room for larger numbers of smaller aircraft. |
#12
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Delta 767s
"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in message ... Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number of cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the winglets have been removed. Actually the winglets are added on the -400, not removed on the -400D. Nit-picky, just interesting that Boeing manuals show the winglets as the optional configuration. As background, specing out an airplane is a balancing act between reducing weight and maintaining an economical life. Overall cycles are more important than hours on an airframe (engines can be replaced). ANA and JAL both find the economic crossover point between cycles and airframe life, and at some point convert the aircraft from domestic to longhaul configuration. Winglets are added, and some but not all extra structure is removed. Ken Ishiguro |
#13
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Domestic versions (was: Delta 767s)
"Jim Anderson" wrote in message news Anyone have the numbers on the empty weight of a "stock" -400 and a "stock" -400D? Difficult to do a direct comparison. Here are the figures for a -400 and -400D with GE engines. The -400 assumes a 400 pax configuration and the -400D assumes 624 pax: Max Gross T/O Weight: 836,000 600,000 Max Struct. Payload wt: 140,912 134,370 Operating empty weight: 394,088 400,630 Note that the -400D is about 6,500 pounds heavier and this means the same reduction in payload. Although the D has 224 more seats in this comparison, it will have fewer galleys and other "monuments". Also note that cycle life is increased by reducing allowable MGTOW, even though the aircraft is totally capable of taking off at 836,000 pounds. This is presumably done by reducing fuel load....if you "do the math" on these numbers, the -400 allows 301,000 pounds of fuel at max payload where the -400D is 65,000 pounds. This is about 15 hours and 3 hours of fuel, respectively. Ken Ishiguro |
#14
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Delta 767s
In article Usx6c.11510$xg.9345@fed1read04,
"Ken Ishiguro" wrote: "Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in message ... Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number of cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the winglets have been removed. Actually the winglets are added on the -400, not removed on the -400D. Nit-picky, just interesting that Boeing manuals show the winglets as the optional configuration. -400s are allowed to operate with one or no winglets too (not part of the MEL) |
#15
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Domestic versions (was: Delta 767s)
"Ken Ishiguro" wrote in message news:jUx6c.11512$xg.1968@fed1read04... "Jim Anderson" wrote in message news Anyone have the numbers on the empty weight of a "stock" -400 and a "stock" -400D? Difficult to do a direct comparison. Here are the figures for a -400 and -400D with GE engines. The -400 assumes a 400 pax configuration and the -400D assumes 624 pax: Max Gross T/O Weight: 836,000 600,000 Max Struct. Payload wt: 140,912 134,370 Operating empty weight: 394,088 400,630 Note that the -400D is about 6,500 pounds heavier and this means the same reduction in payload. Although the D has 224 more seats in this comparison, it will have fewer galleys and other "monuments". Also note that cycle life is increased by reducing allowable MGTOW, even though the aircraft is totally capable of taking off at 836,000 pounds. This is presumably done by reducing fuel load....if you "do the math" on these numbers, the -400 allows 301,000 pounds of fuel at max payload where the -400D is 65,000 pounds. This is about 15 hours and 3 hours of fuel, respectively. Ken - Thanks for the details. Can you highlight what structural changes have been made to the D? Is the gear beefier? Pressure vessel differences? Are any of the modifcations "removable" to decrease the wieght if the airline wants to move the short haul airframe to long haul? J |
#16
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Delta 767s
Not the Karl Orff wrote: In article Usx6c.11510$xg.9345@fed1read04, "Ken Ishiguro" wrote: "Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in message ... Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number of cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the winglets have been removed. Actually the winglets are added on the -400, not removed on the -400D. Nit-picky, just interesting that Boeing manuals show the winglets as the optional configuration. -400s are allowed to operate with one or no winglets too (not part of the MEL) Nope. The winglets and tip extensions are part of the basic 747-400 package. They are removed for the 747-400D. They may also be installed on the -400D once as part of a conversion to long-haul flying. The MEL permits flying with one winglet missing only. There are enroute penalties. Mike Lechnar "If I was speaking for Boeing, I wouldn't be doing it here." |
#17
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Delta 767s
In article ,
Mike Lechnar wrote: The MEL permits flying with one winglet missing only. There are enroute penalties. Thanks. I knew that one wnglet (damaged in accident and removed) is allowed. I thought 2 removed is allowed. |
#18
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Delta 767s
I've also heard that Delta uses the 777 on the Atlanta-Orlando route
to give long haul 777 pilots seat time. Apparently they need a certain number of take-offs and landings before they can command the big bird on a long haul flight. I live in Orlando, and fly Delta 8-10 times a year, and generally connect through Atlanta. I always try to get the flight with the 777, but every time, they have had an equipment substitution and I end up on one of these old 767-400's. FWIW, I think ATL-MCO is a high density route only because so many vacationers flying Delta connect in ATL. Michael On 15 Mar 2004 10:47:07 -0800, (jrk011) wrote: "Frank" wrote in message ... We just booked a flight from BWI to Fort Myers Fl with Delta. The flight out is 1593 and stops in Atlanta. The return is two different flights with the change in Atlanta. What surprises me is that all four segments are on 767s. Why would Delta use such a large plane on such short runs?? High occupancy on that particular route? I've seen Delta using 777s on the Atlanta-Orlando stretch, which is even shorter than Atlanta--Ft.Myers. thanks frank Best, jrk |
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