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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
On Jun 4, 11:34*pm, Harlan Messinger
wrote: grammatim wrote: On Jun 4, 10:25 pm, Harlan Messinger wrote: wrote: Dear Everyone: What is the original meaning of the word, "novecento", in Italian? I know that "Novecento" is the original title of a 1976 film directed by Bernardo Bertolucci, and in the English language, the film is known as "1900". My first guess of its original meaning was "new hundred", or "new century", but The Babel Fish translates it into "The 1900's". Is the word used only to refer to the 20th century? Yes, that's a way they refer to the centuries from 1200 to 2000 in Italian. Il cinquecento = the 16th century, etc. The cinquecento is the 1500s, (That's what I said, give or take a year.) ottocento = 1800s, etc. They match the number to the hundreds-number, so novecento is the "900s," not "new hundred." 1900s.- No, there's no "teen" or "1" in that form of nomenclature. |
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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
On Jun 5, 7:53*am, "ALAN HARRISON"
wrote: "alan" wrote in message ... Wouldn't the 1500s be the "quindicicento" and the 1800s be the "diciotto"? Italian doesn't count hundreds above ten in dates as we do. 1215 is "milleduecentoquindici", 1805 "milleottocentocinque" and so on. In naming the centuries, Italians just drop the "mille". So, where we say "the nineteen hundreds", they say "il novecento". Incidentally, using the alternative "secolo" nomenclature, one of the strange newspaper names in which Italy abounds is "Il Secolo XIX". Probably conatins rather old news. :-) There was a popular US literary magazine called *The Nineteenth Century* -- and yes, it did change its name about 109 years ago. |
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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
On 2009-06-05, Harlan Messinger wrote:
Adam Funk wrote: AIUI, there's a slight difference in the precise meanings: "il cinquecento" = 1500--1599 "16th century" = 1501--1600 As we learned when 2000 rolled around, many English-speaking people think that the 20th century was 1900-1999. So for their Italian counterparts it's all the same. Well, I did say "precise"! Besides, around 2000, we also heard a lot of people explaining the correct way to count centuries and millennia. I imagine people who are interested in foreign films and art history are probably not so resistant to education. -- I don't know what they have to say It makes no difference anyway; Whatever it is, I'm against it! [Prof. Wagstaff] |
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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
Harlan Messinger wrote:
As we learned when 2000 rolled around, many English-speaking people think that the 20th century was 1900-1999. One might ask why don't they think that was the *19*th century! -- António Marques |
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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
ALAN HARRISON ha scritto:
Incidentally, using the alternative "secolo" nomenclature, one of the strange newspaper names in which Italy abounds is "Il Secolo XIX". Probably conatins rather old news. :-) .....Is a newspaper from the 19' century... A sttrange thing is that in this exact case you read in both way: 'Secolo decimonono' and 'Secolo diciannovesimo'. 'Decimonono' is not used in common language.... Ciao, Piero. |
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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Harlan Messinger wrote:
What is the original meaning of the word, "novecento", in Italian? I know that "Novecento" is ... film directed known as "1900". My first guess of its original meaning was "new hundred", or "new NO. The word "in letter" (as we used to say when writing a cheque) "nove.cento" means "NINE.hundred" and is the common expression for the number "in figures" 900. I inserted a dot (not pronounced nor written) to show clearly the components. This is just an extemporary convention I devised here. When referring to year dates (INDIVIDUAL years) we speak aloud all component numbers. So year 476 AD is "quattro.cento.settanta.sei" (four.hundred.seventy.six) and year 1492 is "mille.quattro.cento.novanta.due" (thousand.four.hundred.ninety.two). We do NOT use (as most other languages but English) to split 14/92 as fourteen/ninetytwo). This way year "1900" would be "millenovecento". However when referring to entire centuries, and in certain contexts (typically history of art or literature but not only), one can refer to the entire century starting in a given "00" year in two ways : e.g. the century starting in 1900 would be "ventesimo secolo" (twentieth century) and also "novecento". In this case one forgets about "mille". In practice there is no confusion, because the expression is used only in particular contexts. One starts with "il Duecento" (1200) because there is few italian literature before such date, and continues with Trecento, Quattrocento, Cinquecento, Seicento, Settecento and Ottocento. An exhibition about lombard painting in XVII century was titled "il Seicento lombardo". The abbreviated form is sometimes used in common parliance. If I say that my grandparents married "nel novecento" I am referring to 1900, and if I say their first son (the eldest of my uncles) was born "nel quattro" (in the four") I am referring to 1904 (and this was unambiguous until 5 years ago). If I have to quote an historical fact, the date is usually expressed in full to disambiguate (Charles the Great might be crowned in 800, "nell'ottocento", and Napoleon in 1800 "nel milleottocento"). This disambiguation is unnecessary for non-secular years. "ottocentododici" will refer to 812 AD, never to 1812. Although "nel dodici" in a letter might refer to 1812, 1912 or 2012 depending on context. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
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The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian
On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, Piero wrote:
strange newspaper names in which Italy abounds is "Il Secolo XIX". A newspaper from Genova, yes. you read in both way: 'Secolo decimonono' and 'Secolo diciannovesimo'. 19 = diciannove ; 19th = diciannov.esimo ; these are the forms used in common parliance for the cardinal and ordinal number. But the newspaper is traditionally "decimo.nono" (although the Genoese abbreviate in "'monono" :-)), lit. tenth/ninth 'Decimonono' is not used in common language.... It is an old form. Sometimes used also with kings and popes. For instance Pope John XXIII (nowadays almost invariably called "Giovanni venti.tre.esimo", 23rd) when living was called (e.g. by radio or TV) "Giovanni vigesimo terzo" (twentieth third ... and "vigesimo" itself was an old form instead of the more common "ventesimo"). -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
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