Time for Dallas airfares to come down

Southwest is happy at Love Field. And there is no way to force them - that
was decided in the mid 1970's (all the way to the Supreme Court).
"- HAL9000" wrote in message
...
So is 24 gates enough for all of SW to move to DFW? Seems like that
would be the ideal (ignoring cost) solution.


On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 03:03:22 GMT, "Jeff Hacker"
wrote:

snip

DFW won't fail as an airport - it is one of the busiest ones in the world.
But there will be something like 24 empty gates, closed shops, etc.

snip

Southwest is happy at Love Field. And there is no way to force them - that
was decided in the mid 1970's (all the way to the Supreme Court).
"- HAL9000" wrote in message
...
So is 24 gates enough for all of SW to move to DFW? Seems like that
would be the ideal (ignoring cost) solution.


On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 03:03:22 GMT, "Jeff Hacker"
wrote:

snip

DFW won't fail as an airport - it is one of the busiest ones in the world.
But there will be something like 24 empty gates, closed shops, etc.

snip

- HAL9000 wrote:

So the wright amendment was to protect airlines which operated out of
DFW. Apparently the amendment was not enough as one airline has
pulled out of DFW. If the wright amendment is removed seems like DFW
has to fail as an airport.

No. The Wright Amdendment was designed to protect the DFW bondholders - the
people who funded the loans for this monster new airport out in the farmland
between Dallas and Fort Worth. People forget the risk when DFW was proposed.

What has happened since is AA and SWA building a business model around the
Wright Amendment - it has long since outlived the original need.

Nigel Reed wrote:

DFW is probably the worst airport
I've ever been to as far as facilities go, except maybe for EMA which is
a small regional airport.

DFW was the last new US airport to be designed as an O&D (Origination and
Destination) airport. In other words, it was designed for people who live in the
area to be able to park and get to their gate with just a few minutes walk.
There weren't that many connections in those days.

Right after DFW was built, AA started to use it as a Hub & Spoke airport, and
security screening requirements were increased. That makes it a non-optimal
design. When the new train and international terminal opens up next year though,
things should be massively better.

- HAL9000 wrote:

So is 24 gates enough for all of SW to move to DFW? Seems like that
would be the ideal (ignoring cost) solution.


I doubt SWA would move all their flights to DFW. Too expensive (landing fees and
turn times). Those 20 minute taxis to the runway in western Arkansas can really
eat up a schedule.

They would probably just use it for long haul flights and keep the regional ones
at Love. Much the way the do things in Houston.

In dfw.general MrPepper11 wrote:
: "If you need to travel between Nashville, Tenn., and Dallas, the
: lowest unrestricted, nonstop fare is $1,291 on American Airlines. But
: if you want to fly between Nashville and Houston nonstop, you'd pay no
: more than $356 for a round-trip ticket on Southwest."

Here's what I don't get: Why does Southwest so piggishly
refuse to operate any gates out of DFW?

They operate out of Hobby and Intercontinental, don't they?
Why is Houston special?

I do think that the Wright Amendment long ago outlasted its
purpose -- I *think*. At any rate, the neighborhoods surrounding
Love Field aren't going to be pleased if a bunch of jets bearing
enough fuel for longhaul traffic start taking off from there
again. It just seems like Southwest could operate its longhaul
business from DFW just as profitably if it wanted.

cb

Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:

- HAL9000 wrote:


So is 24 gates enough for all of SW to move to DFW? Seems like that
would be the ideal (ignoring cost) solution.



I doubt SWA would move all their flights to DFW. Too expensive (landing fees and
turn times). Those 20 minute taxis to the runway in western Arkansas can really
eat up a schedule.

They would probably just use it for long haul flights and keep the regional ones
at Love. Much the way the do things in Houston.


I would not describe that as their method in Houston. While they do
offer some flights from IAH instead of HOU most of their long haul
flights are from HOU. I suspect that the IAH flights are simply
connections to hubs that they want to attract folks changing at IAH
together with a few folks from the north side who don't like to go to HOU.

It is interesting to watch the structures of other airlines in Houston.
Delta, for example, often offers flights from both airports to their
hubs at about the same time. I have to watch myself carefully to keep
track of which airport I booked out of. At least when I'm using
Continental or Southwest I know where to head for. I've never seen one
of their flights that was more convenient from an nonstandard airport.

Chris Bellomy wrote:

In dfw.general MrPepper11 wrote:
: "If you need to travel between Nashville, Tenn., and Dallas, the
: lowest unrestricted, nonstop fare is $1,291 on American Airlines. But
: if you want to fly between Nashville and Houston nonstop, you'd pay no
: more than $356 for a round-trip ticket on Southwest."

Here's what I don't get: Why does Southwest so piggishly
refuse to operate any gates out of DFW?

They operate out of Hobby and Intercontinental, don't they?
Why is Houston special?

I do think that the Wright Amendment long ago outlasted its
purpose -- I *think*. At any rate, the neighborhoods surrounding
Love Field aren't going to be pleased if a bunch of jets bearing
enough fuel for longhaul traffic start taking off from there
again. It just seems like Southwest could operate its longhaul
business from DFW just as profitably if it wanted.

cb


It may be a cost thing or, more likely, a time thing for WN at DFW. I
have no idea why they use IAH but there must be some profit in it or
they would not stay. They don't do much out of IAH in any case.

To get reasonable inter connects they would likely use Love for their
Dallas long haul flights if they had a choice. Until then it's not much
bother to jump to a hub within the Wright amendment restrictions. I
suspect that the impact of a change in the WA would be felt mostly in a
place like Albuquerque.

Chris Bellomy wrote:

Here's what I don't get: Why does Southwest so piggishly
refuse to operate any gates out of DFW?


There is nothing "piggish" about it. Landing fees at DFW are significantly
higher, as are taxi times. SWA uses quick turns to keep costs down. Opertaing
out of DFW makes things more expensive for everyone.

They operate out of Hobby and Intercontinental, don't they?
Why is Houston special?


The airports are not nearly as large.

I do think that the Wright Amendment long ago outlasted its
purpose -- I *think*. At any rate, the neighborhoods surrounding
Love Field aren't going to be pleased if a bunch of jets bearing
enough fuel for longhaul traffic start taking off from there
again. It just seems like Southwest could operate its longhaul
business from DFW just as profitably if it wanted.

Fuel loads have nothing to do with noise.

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote:

I suspect that the impact of a change in the WA would be felt mostly in a
place like Albuquerque.


Interesting. Do think the number of flights at ABQ would drop?