Mum accused of trafficking daughter in airline blunder

B writes:

On 02 Mar 2006 18:55:39 +0000, Des Small
wrote:

B writes:

I teach an English class in our local evening school. We use a text
produced by Oxford University and some of the usages it proposes make
me cringe. Last night, I encountered "Firstly", the use of which would
have given my English teacher hives. I usually warn my students that
such usages are not universally accepted.

Well, Oxford usage and Noo Joisey(?) usage may have been different
back then, too. The Intergalactic NYT Scrapbook-Tribune gets on my
tits more than somewhat when it writes about foopball ("soccer") with
the American convention that teams are singular nouns.

Has "firstly" always been considered standard in the UK?

Fowler's _Modern English Usage_ (1926) has this to say:

"""
First(ly), secondly, lastly. The preference for 'first' over
'firstly' in formal enumerations is one of those harlmess pedentries
in which those who like oddities because they are odd are free to
indulge, provided they abstain from censuring those who do not share
the liking. It is true that 'firstly' is not in Johnson; it is true
that De Quincey labels it 'your ridiculous & most pedantic neologism
of "firstly"'; the boot is on the other leg now; it is the pedant that
begins his list with 'first'; no-one does it by the light of nature;
it is an artificialism. Idioms grow old like other things, & the
idiom-book of a century hence will probably not even mention 'first,
secondly'.
"""

More interesting, to my mind, is the astonishing length of time in
which educated persons continue to hold their gradeschool English
teachers' whims in awe. (I'm not accusing you, of course.)

"Give me the child for his first seven (7) years and I'll give you the
man", isn't it?

Des

Lansbury wrote:
Everyone, including me, is pointing a finger at Ryanair but unless we know,
and we don't, what question(s) this lady specifically asked Ryanair and what


Do we know if the GDS systems's "visa requirements" databases include
comments specific to babies ?

If the Ryannair employee's computer system only displayed general
visa/passport entry requirements for passenger of citizenship X to enter
country Y, then can the Ryannair employee be faulted for not telling the
person about special/additional requirements for babies ?

And lets say for the first time, the lady didn't ask and assumed it was
just the normal intra-europe rules. She gets caught in italy. So, for
second trip, she decides she will call first. If the place she contacted
didn't have information specific to babies, they may have simply given
the general visa/passport requirements and she gets caught again.

If you are not in your home country, it would become a bit difficult to
obtain some papers for your baby.

In message , at 05:34:44 on Fri, 3 Mar
2006, nobody remarked:
If you are not in your home country, it would become a bit difficult to
obtain some papers for your baby.

It's probably easier if you are *not* in your home country, because you
can go along to the local Embassy and get things done (often) while you
wait and at a one-stop-shop. Versus dealing with several different
agencies, many of whom will only condone mail-order, many of whom work
to timescales of many weeks, in one's home country.
--
Roland Perry

Following up to Mxsmanic

How did she determine what legal documentation was needed for her to
move to the UK? Did she ask the airline?

I don't know--how did she do it?

groan.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to DDT Filled Mormons

But she was Australian, and wasn't her husband Italian? Hardly
suspicious characters, and I assume no-one doubted it was her baby.

what counts as "suspicious", just Arabs?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Mxsmanic

For the same reason they know they need a passport themselves.
Feminine intuition.

A lot of people don't know they need passports to travel.

double groan. How many aussies living in London married to
italians dont? 0.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)

Word meanings evolve.

Or deteriorate! (But one must accept what has become common
usage, however much one cringes to hear it.)

verily, thou speakest well.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Lansbury

Seeing as she was traveling to Italy, and after the first mess, the Italian
Embassy in London you would have thought would have sprung to mind. Failing
that the Australian citizen services section of the Australian High Commission
in London.

not only that, I find it implausible she didnt realise from the
various police and immigration officials she spent hours with. I
cant imagine how the conversations went without mention of "why
haven't you got a passport?". Then we are supposed to believe she
rings an airline (who already gave her wrong advice) to see if a
birth certificate will do.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reid wrote:
Following up to DDT Filled Mormons


But she was Australian, and wasn't her husband Italian? Hardly
suspicious characters, and I assume no-one doubted it was her baby.


what counts as "suspicious", just Arabs?

Not for baby stealing, that would be gypsies.

Martin writes:

On 03 Mar 2006 10:20:49 +0000, Des Small
wrote:

"Give me the child for his first seven (7) years and I'll give you the
man", isn't it?

Isn't it "and I'll show you a child molester"?

They used to call it "boarding school", but idioms change of course.

Des