Ending Somali piracy: few options for US forces

I saw this article on Yahoo regarding Somali Piracy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090414/...cy_few_options

3 Small excerpts:

"Stamping out Somalia's piracy scourge using U.S. warships or military force
will be virtually impossible, according to maritime experts who said Tuesday
the real problems lie ashore in the ashes of Somalia's failed state."

"Perhaps the biggest obstacle ... is the sheer size of the seas around the
Gulf of Aden and Somalia's 1,900-mile coastline, the longest in Africa. It's
impossible for ships to be everywhere at once, and they can only guard a
tiny fraction of the tens of thousands of vessels that transit the region
annually."

"Most nations and ship owners have been reticent to use military options ...
pirates have rarely harmed hostages."

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:38:35 -0400, "Tom K" wrote:

I saw this article on Yahoo regarding Somali Piracy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090414/...cy_few_options

3 Small excerpts:

"Stamping out Somalia's piracy scourge using U.S. warships or military force
will be virtually impossible, according to maritime experts who said Tuesday
the real problems lie ashore in the ashes of Somalia's failed state."

"Perhaps the biggest obstacle ... is the sheer size of the seas around the
Gulf of Aden and Somalia's 1,900-mile coastline, the longest in Africa. It's
impossible for ships to be everywhere at once, and they can only guard a
tiny fraction of the tens of thousands of vessels that transit the region
annually."

"Most nations and ship owners have been reticent to use military options ...
pirates have rarely harmed hostages."


There is only one option to end the piracy.

Kill the *******s.

"Gettamulla Tupya" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:38:35 -0400, "Tom K"
wrote:

I saw this article on Yahoo regarding Somali Piracy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090414/...cy_few_options

3 Small excerpts:

"Stamping out Somalia's piracy scourge using U.S. warships or military
force
will be virtually impossible, according to maritime experts who said
Tuesday
the real problems lie ashore in the ashes of Somalia's failed state."

"Perhaps the biggest obstacle ... is the sheer size of the seas around
the
Gulf of Aden and Somalia's 1,900-mile coastline, the longest in Africa.
It's
impossible for ships to be everywhere at once, and they can only guard a
tiny fraction of the tens of thousands of vessels that transit the region
annually."

"Most nations and ship owners have been reticent to use military options
...
pirates have rarely harmed hostages."


There is only one option to end the piracy.

Kill the *******s.

Brilliant... I guess you didn't bother to read the article. They can't even
find them. There's 1900 miles of coast line. And when they do find a boat,
they can't tell the difference between real fishermen and pirates. And last
time we tried something on land in that country, it resulted in the real
life case of "Black Hawk Down".

"Gettamulla Tupya" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:38:35 -0400, "Tom K"
wrote:

I saw this article on Yahoo regarding Somali Piracy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090414/...cy_few_options

3 Small excerpts:

"Stamping out Somalia's piracy scourge using U.S. warships or military
force
will be virtually impossible, according to maritime experts who said
Tuesday
the real problems lie ashore in the ashes of Somalia's failed state."

"Perhaps the biggest obstacle ... is the sheer size of the seas around
the
Gulf of Aden and Somalia's 1,900-mile coastline, the longest in Africa.
It's
impossible for ships to be everywhere at once, and they can only guard a
tiny fraction of the tens of thousands of vessels that transit the region
annually."

"Most nations and ship owners have been reticent to use military options
...
pirates have rarely harmed hostages."


There is only one option to end the piracy.

Kill the *******s.


Yeah, I've never quite understood this so called "legality" they have to do
this sort of thing.

How bout a couple of waves of fighters n such carpet bomb the coast
line....they have to sail from somewhere.

Or we could just tell that part of the world. "Hey...you want food? YOU
stop the pirates".

"Riley 77" wrote in message
...

How bout a couple of waves of fighters n such carpet bomb the coast
line....they have to sail from somewhere.


From the article...

"The Islamic country of 8 million people disintegrated in 1991 when warlords
toppled the president. Since then, it's been ruled by heavily armed rival
clans, hit by famine, and suffered relentless outbreaks of street-fighting
that turned it into a no-go zone for most foreigners."

"The U.S. dispatched troops in 1992 as part of a U.N. relief operation to
feed hordes of hungry civilians, but the Americans became entangled in local
clan warfare. Months later, militias shot down two helicopters and killed 18
American soldiers in a battle recounted in the book and movie "Black Hawk
Down."

You sure you want to go back there?

In article ,
"Tom K" wrote:


Brilliant... I guess you didn't bother to read the article. They can't even
find them. There's 1900 miles of coast line. And when they do find a boat,
they can't tell the difference between real fishermen and pirates. And last
time we tried something on land in that country, it resulted in the real
life case of "Black Hawk Down".


The only real way might be to pull the ships a little farther away
from land, declare an exclusion zone and say anything originating on the
coast that goes past that point will be sunk. Period. Even that is iffy
at best.

--
If you¹re going to sin, sin against God,
not the bureaucracy; God will forgive you
but the bureaucracy won¹t.
‹Hyman G. Rickover

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Tom K" wrote:
Brilliant... I guess you didn't bother to read the article. They can't even
find them. There's 1900 miles of coast line. And when they do find a boat,
they can't tell the difference between real fishermen and pirates. And last
time we tried something on land in that country, it resulted in the real
life case of "Black Hawk Down".
The only real way might be to pull the ships a little farther away
from land, declare an exclusion zone and say anything originating on the
coast that goes past that point will be sunk. Period. Even that is iffy
at best.

It might be iffy, but it certainly would put a
crimp in the pirates operations. No small boat
fishermen go 100 miles offshore to legally "fish"
so it would not impact the legal folks.
The real "problem" is that there is no functioning
government, and successful pirates make lots of
money without any apparent risk. Kill a few dozen
of them, and "properly" display their remains and
you might see a real difference in the number
wanting to go "pirating.".
Meanwhile, give the ship's crews some appropriate
arms and some training to increase their self
defense capability.
Cheers,
John in LALALand (On the Left Coast)

"JCarnaghie" wrote in message
...
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Tom K" wrote:
Brilliant... I guess you didn't bother to read the article. They can't
even find them. There's 1900 miles of coast line. And when they do find
a boat, they can't tell the difference between real fishermen and
pirates. And last time we tried something on land in that country, it
resulted in the real life case of "Black Hawk Down".
The only real way might be to pull the ships a little farther away
from land, declare an exclusion zone and say anything originating on the
coast that goes past that point will be sunk. Period. Even that is iffy
at best.

It might be iffy, but it certainly would put a crimp in the pirates
operations. No small boat fishermen go 100 miles offshore to legally
"fish" so it would not impact the legal folks.
The real "problem" is that there is no functioning government, and
successful pirates make lots of money without any apparent risk. Kill a
few dozen of them, and "properly" display their remains and you might see
a real difference in the number wanting to go "pirating.".
Meanwhile, give the ship's crews some appropriate arms and some training
to increase their self defense capability.
Cheers,
John in LALALand (On the Left Coast)

So... you want to give high end weapons to cargo ships with crew from
countries like Liberia, etc? You can't give the cargo ships something
simple like guns if the pirates have rocket launchers. So if you give cargo
ships high end weapons, how long before those high end weapons are sold on
the black market?

--Tom

Tom K wrote:
"JCarnaghie" wrote in message
...
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Tom K" wrote:
Brilliant... I guess you didn't bother to read the article. They can't
even find them. There's 1900 miles of coast line. And when they do find
a boat, they can't tell the difference between real fishermen and
pirates. And last time we tried something on land in that country, it
resulted in the real life case of "Black Hawk Down".
The only real way might be to pull the ships a little farther away
from land, declare an exclusion zone and say anything originating on the
coast that goes past that point will be sunk. Period. Even that is iffy
at best.

It might be iffy, but it certainly would put a crimp in the pirates
operations. No small boat fishermen go 100 miles offshore to legally
"fish" so it would not impact the legal folks.
The real "problem" is that there is no functioning government, and
successful pirates make lots of money without any apparent risk. Kill a
few dozen of them, and "properly" display their remains and you might see
a real difference in the number wanting to go "pirating.".
Meanwhile, give the ship's crews some appropriate arms and some training
to increase their self defense capability.
Cheers,
John in LALALand (On the Left Coast)

So... you want to give high end weapons to cargo ships with crew from
countries like Liberia, etc? You can't give the cargo ships something
simple like guns if the pirates have rocket launchers. So if you give cargo
ships high end weapons, how long before those high end weapons are sold on
the black market?

--Tom

Why is it any of our business what a Liberian ship carries in the way of
defensive arms? I thought we were discussing American ships. I believe
we armed merchant ships during wartime, so I see little difference.The
exclusion zone would be a good thing, since it could be defended from
the air. . . warning shots followed by true interdiction.

Another alternative would be to let groups of Americans charter ships
and sail them deliberately in harm's way. Aboard would be the
Americans, but secretly armed to the teeth. When the pirates approach
the vessel, they'd get the surprise of their soon-to-be brief life. The
Americans could keep the trophies- appropriately mounted- and it'd be a
great version of going on an African Safari.

George, Ray or Cal could arrange the hunting charter.

--
Nonny
If you think health care is expensive now,
wait until you see what it costs when it's free!

- P.J. O'Rourke

In article , Tom K
wrote:

So... you want to give high end weapons to cargo ships with crew from
countries like Liberia, etc? You can't give the cargo ships something
simple like guns if the pirates have rocket launchers. So if you give cargo
ships high end weapons, how long before those high end weapons are sold on
the black market?

Instead of giving the cargo ships weapons I would suggest setting up
convoys of a bunch of ships protected by military ships like they did
against the German subs.

--
Charles