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Delta 767s



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 15th, 2004, 03:10 PM
Frank
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Default Delta 767s

We just booked a flight from BWI to Fort Myers Fl with Delta. The flight out
is 1593 and stops in Atlanta. The return is two different flights with the
change in Atlanta. What surprises me is that all four segments are on 767s.
Why would Delta use such a large plane on such short runs??

thanks
frank


  #2  
Old March 15th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Traveller
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Default Delta 767s


"Frank" wrote in message
...
We just booked a flight from BWI to Fort Myers Fl with Delta. The flight

out
is 1593 and stops in Atlanta. The return is two different flights with the
change in Atlanta. What surprises me is that all four segments are on

767s.
Why would Delta use such a large plane on such short runs??


Bear in mind that while 767s are aircraft with long-haul capability, they
are also pretty sizeable in terms of passenger capacity. According to
delta.com, the DL 767 has between 204 and 287 seats, depending on the
variant and configuration - which makes it bigger in terms of pax carried
than the 777 at 277 seats.

Many airlines use 767s on short runs. One which comes to mind immediately
is British Airways, who I have seen running 767s between London and Paris,
Geneva, or Zurich - all flights of 90 minutes or less.

Some airlines use even bigger birds - Japan Air Lines ran (and maybe still
does run) a B747-SR (Short Range) capable of carrying up to 550 pax on short
routes. JAL use(d) it for domestic flights with very high density.

PEter


  #3  
Old March 15th, 2004, 07:11 PM
Joost van der Maarel
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Default Delta 767s

"Traveller" wrote in message
...

"Frank" wrote in message
...
We just booked a flight from BWI to Fort Myers Fl with Delta. The flight

out
is 1593 and stops in Atlanta. The return is two different flights with

the
change in Atlanta. What surprises me is that all four segments are on

767s.
Why would Delta use such a large plane on such short runs??


Bear in mind that while 767s are aircraft with long-haul capability, they
are also pretty sizeable in terms of passenger capacity. According to
delta.com, the DL 767 has between 204 and 287 seats, depending on the
variant and configuration - which makes it bigger in terms of pax carried
than the 777 at 277 seats.

Many airlines use 767s on short runs. One which comes to mind immediately
is British Airways, who I have seen running 767s between London and Paris,
Geneva, or Zurich - all flights of 90 minutes or less.

Some airlines use even bigger birds - Japan Air Lines ran (and maybe still
does run) a B747-SR (Short Range) capable of carrying up to 550 pax on

short
routes. JAL use(d) it for domestic flights with very high density.

PEter


They still do, and ANA too. When you look at http://www.flightlookup.com for
flights between Tokyo and Osaka, they're mostly running with 747's and 777's
on this one hour flight.

Joost


  #4  
Old March 15th, 2004, 09:06 PM
Andrew J. Perrin
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Default Delta 767s

I suspect it's partially congestion at ATL, which makes it less than
attractive for DL to run multiple smaller-craft flights in
high-occupancy routes.

I've seen some others, though -- from memory, I've flown 747s from
BOS-DTW (on NW) and WDH-JNB (on SW), both short flights. The WDH-JNB
was freaky, as there can't have been more than 20 people on the entire
plane (not including crew)!

ap

(jrk011) writes:

"Frank" wrote in message ...
We just booked a flight from BWI to Fort Myers Fl with Delta. The flight out
is 1593 and stops in Atlanta. The return is two different flights with the
change in Atlanta. What surprises me is that all four segments are on 767s.
Why would Delta use such a large plane on such short runs??


High occupancy on that particular route?

I've seen Delta using 777s on the Atlanta-Orlando stretch, which
is even shorter than Atlanta--Ft.Myers.


thanks
frank


Best, jrk


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew J Perrin -
http://www.unc.edu/~aperrin
Assistant Professor of Sociology, U of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
* andrew_perrin (at) unc.edu
  #5  
Old March 16th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Clark W. Griswold, Jr.
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Default Delta 767s

"Traveller" wrote:

Some airlines use even bigger birds - Japan Air Lines ran (and maybe still
does run) a B747-SR (Short Range) capable of carrying up to 550 pax on short
routes. JAL use(d) it for domestic flights with very high density.


The newest version of the JAL 747-SR is the 747-400D (domestic).
  #6  
Old March 16th, 2004, 03:57 AM
Jim Anderson
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Default Delta 767s


"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in
message ...
"Traveller" wrote:

Some airlines use even bigger birds - Japan Air Lines ran (and maybe

still
does run) a B747-SR (Short Range) capable of carrying up to 550 pax on

short
routes. JAL use(d) it for domestic flights with very high density.


The newest version of the JAL 747-SR is the 747-400D (domestic).


Trivia question...

What's the difference between the -400 and -400D??

J

hint - something that helps on the long range end of things but adds drag on
the short range end...



  #7  
Old March 16th, 2004, 04:20 AM
Clark W. Griswold, Jr.
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Default Delta 767s

"Jim Anderson" wrote:

Trivia question...

What's the difference between the -400 and -400D??


Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number of
cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the winglets
have been removed.

As background, specing out an airplane is a balancing act between reducing
weight and maintaining an economical life. Overall cycles are more important
than hours on an airframe (engines can be replaced).

Long haul aircraft see 1-2 takeoff/land cycles per 24 hours, but average 10-12
flying hours in that same period. Cycles are a factor in engine life, but are
more of a concern to the airframe due to pressurization/depressurization stress
as well as the impact of landing.

Aircraft that operate domestically will see their daily cycle counts go up by a
factor of 4 or more and their overall flying hours staying the same or dropping.
  #8  
Old March 17th, 2004, 11:48 AM
Ulf Kutzner
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Default Domestic versions (was: Delta 767s)

"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." schrieb:

What's the difference between the -400 and -400D??


Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number of
cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the winglets
have been removed.

As background, specing out an airplane is a balancing act between reducing
weight and maintaining an economical life. Overall cycles are more important
than hours on an airframe (engines can be replaced).

Long haul aircraft see 1-2 takeoff/land cycles per 24 hours, but average 10-12
flying hours in that same period. Cycles are a factor in engine life, but are
more of a concern to the airframe due to pressurization/depressurization stress
as well as the impact of landing.

Aircraft that operate domestically will see their daily cycle counts go up by a
factor of 4 or more and their overall flying hours staying the same or dropping.


They learnt from the 737 cabrio effect (Aloha 1988).

http://myadvertiser.com/2001/Jan/18/118localnews1.html

Regards, ULF
  #9  
Old March 17th, 2004, 11:52 AM
Ulf Kutzner
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Posts: n/a
Default Wide bodies on short flights (was: Delta 767s)

"Andrew J. Perrin" schrieb:

I suspect it's partially congestion at ATL, which makes it less than
attractive for DL to run multiple smaller-craft flights in
high-occupancy routes.

I've seen some others, though -- from memory, I've flown 747s from
BOS-DTW (on NW) and WDH-JNB (on SW), both short flights.


FRA - HAJ (2:30 by *train*) used to be served by 747 during Cebit, at
least in 2002.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ad.main/764567

Regards, ULF
  #10  
Old March 17th, 2004, 02:21 PM
Jim Anderson
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Posts: n/a
Default Domestic versions (was: Delta 767s)


"Ulf Kutzner" wrote in message
...
"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." schrieb:

What's the difference between the -400 and -400D??


Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional

number of
cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the

winglets
have been removed.

As background, specing out an airplane is a balancing act between

reducing
weight and maintaining an economical life. Overall cycles are more

important
than hours on an airframe (engines can be replaced).

Long haul aircraft see 1-2 takeoff/land cycles per 24 hours, but average

10-12
flying hours in that same period. Cycles are a factor in engine life,

but are
more of a concern to the airframe due to pressurization/depressurization

stress
as well as the impact of landing.

Aircraft that operate domestically will see their daily cycle counts go

up by a
factor of 4 or more and their overall flying hours staying the same or

dropping.

They learnt from the 737 cabrio effect (Aloha 1988).

http://myadvertiser.com/2001/Jan/18/118localnews1.html

Regards, ULF


Anyone have the numbers on the empty weight of a "stock" -400 and a
"stock" -400D?

J


 




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