Spain / Rail Europe

Hello all

I'm planning a trip to Spain in May. In plotting out my schedule from
city to city, I'm running into some confusion with the rail routes.

On raileurope.com, I'm looking at the Spain Flexipass.

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/pa..._flexipass.htm

This seems to be a best bet for the places I want to go. However,
there is a note halfway down that says "passes are not valid on the
following private railways in Spain: FEVE, FCG, EUSKOTREN and FGV".

What does that mean? Does Rail Europe not run the routes themselves?
I'm planning the trip based on the schedule lookup they have for city
- city. My assumption was that, if there is a route between two
cities in the database, I would be able to use my pass for that route.
Is this a bad assumption?

I have also seen references to RENFE. Who are they? Should I be more
focused with them? Is it all the same? Mixed?

This is the first trip I have planned, so I'm a bit overwhelmed. I
don't mind learning from a few mistakes, but I'd also like to avoid
being stuck somewhere, or not be able to visit a city I've planned.
So any clarity would be greatly appreciated.

While I'm at it, I'd be interested in hearing any personal experience
on:

- What's the difference between 1st and 2nd classes?
- Zaragoza is a pain to get to from the other cities I'll be in
(Pamplona, Barcelona, Bilbao). Is it worth seeing?
- Any opinions on Toledo?
- Granada?

Thanks very much for any info!

"Anthony Benbrook" skrev i meddelandet
om...
Hello all

I'm planning a trip to Spain in May. In plotting out my schedule from
city to city, I'm running into some confusion with the rail routes.

On raileurope.com, I'm looking at the Spain Flexipass.

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/pa..._flexipass.htm

This seems to be a best bet for the places I want to go. However,
there is a note halfway down that says "passes are not valid on the
following private railways in Spain: FEVE, FCG, EUSKOTREN and FGV".
That's private Railways, most narrow gauge and most on the northern coat
of Spain against the Atlantic, others are suburban railways around Barcelona
and Valencia.
Don't think you need them so much for a trip around Spain.

What does that mean? Does Rail Europe not run the routes themselves?
No, Rail europe doesn't run trains they're only acting as an agent selling
tickets.
Ordinary tickets much overpriced compared with local bought tickets but
their passes may be at prices equal to what's offered elsewhere.

I'm planning the trip based on the schedule lookup they have for city
- city. My assumption was that, if there is a route between two
cities in the database, I would be able to use my pass for that route.
Is this a bad assumption?

I have also seen references to RENFE. Who are they? Should I be more
focused with them? Is it all the same? Mixed?

RENFE is the national railway in Spain responsible for the major of the
rail-network in Spain and running the trains on it. With the above
mentioned railways excluded your pass is valid on RENFE only
The link is http://www.renfe.es/ingles/index.html
As for schedules you may have use of
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

As for schedules...

EXCELLENT reply, Lennart!

Subject: Spain / Rail Europe
From: (Anthony Benbrook)
Date: 1/25/2004 3:04 PM


Hello all

I'm planning a trip to Spain in May. In plotting out my schedule from
city to city, I'm running into some confusion with the rail routes.

On raileurope.com, I'm looking at the Spain Flexipass.

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/pa..._flexipass.htm

This seems to be a best bet for the places I want to go. However,
there is a note halfway down that says "passes are not valid on the
following private railways in Spain: FEVE, FCG, EUSKOTREN and FGV".

What does that mean? Does Rail Europe not run the routes themselves?
I'm planning the trip based on the schedule lookup they have for city
- city. My assumption was that, if there is a route between two
cities in the database, I would be able to use my pass for that route.
Is this a bad assumption?

I have also seen references to RENFE. Who are they? Should I be more
focused with them? Is it all the same? Mixed?

This is the first trip I have planned, so I'm a bit overwhelmed. I
don't mind learning from a few mistakes, but I'd also like to avoid
being stuck somewhere, or not be able to visit a city I've planned.
So any clarity would be greatly appreciated.

While I'm at it, I'd be interested in hearing any personal experience
on:

- What's the difference between 1st and 2nd classes?
- Zaragoza is a pain to get to from the other cities I'll be in
(Pamplona, Barcelona, Bilbao). Is it worth seeing?
- Any opinions on Toledo?
- Granada?

Thanks very much for any info!

FEVE, et al are regional trains runs. RENFE is the national train system. If
you have a chance to ride on the FEVE I would not miss it. You might consider
going without the Flexipass. I personally have never found it to save me any
money and its restirctions can be a pain. There are a slew of discounts
available w/o a pass (e.g. round trip ticket, student...). This also give you
the option to use buses, where they work better (i.e. Granada). I'd suggest
looking at the schedules, prices, etc. at www.renfe.es. You will get the most
current info there. I have always travelled 2nd class. The only time I
upgrade is on night trains where I purchase a liter. Its not an area where I
think spending the extra $ is worth it.

Generally the more difficult a city is to reach in Spain, the more worth it is
to get there.

I suggest that you spend about $20 and buy a copy of the Thomas Cook
European Timetable at
http://www.thomascooktimetables.com/. This baby has virtually all of the
trains in Europe, except for local private operations.

To learn more about using the national rails in Europe visit my page at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm

John Bermont
http://www.enjoy-europe.com



Anthony Benbrook wrote:

Hello all

I'm planning a trip to Spain in May. In plotting out my schedule from
city to city, I'm running into some confusion with the rail routes.

On raileurope.com, I'm looking at the Spain Flexipass.

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/pa..._flexipass.htm

This seems to be a best bet for the places I want to go. However,
there is a note halfway down that says "passes are not valid on the
following private railways in Spain: FEVE, FCG, EUSKOTREN and FGV".

What does that mean? Does Rail Europe not run the routes themselves?
I'm planning the trip based on the schedule lookup they have for city
- city. My assumption was that, if there is a route between two
cities in the database, I would be able to use my pass for that route.
Is this a bad assumption?

I have also seen references to RENFE. Who are they? Should I be more
focused with them? Is it all the same? Mixed?

This is the first trip I have planned, so I'm a bit overwhelmed. I
don't mind learning from a few mistakes, but I'd also like to avoid
being stuck somewhere, or not be able to visit a city I've planned.
So any clarity would be greatly appreciated.

While I'm at it, I'd be interested in hearing any personal experience
on:

- What's the difference between 1st and 2nd classes?
- Zaragoza is a pain to get to from the other cities I'll be in
(Pamplona, Barcelona, Bilbao). Is it worth seeing?
- Any opinions on Toledo?
- Granada?

Thanks very much for any info!

Anthony Benbrook wrote:
I'm planning a trip to Spain in May. In plotting out my schedule from
city to city, I'm running into some confusion with the rail routes.

Rail is not automatically the best choice between points in Spain, in my
opinion. (It sometimes is.) Depending on your itinerary you may be better
off buying point-to-point and chosing rail or coach depending on what the
best connection is.

- Any opinions on Toledo?
- Granada?

Both old, wonderful cities. You can visit Toledo as a day trip from Madrid,
but it is worth spending the night--the tour buses leave around 5. (And, I
think Madrid would make a great day trip from Toledo.)

Granada is worth several days. I would suggest, at minimum

Day 1--Explore the old city. Dinner in the Albaicin. Evening visit to the
Nasrim Palace in the Alhambra.

Day 2--Visit the entire Alhambra. Sunset at P. St Nicholas in the Albaicin.

Have a great trip!

Am 26 Jan 2004 10:07:11 EST hat OughtFour geschrieben:

- Any opinions on Toledo?
- Granada?

Granada is worth several days. I would suggest, at minimum

Day 1--Explore the old city.
I would suggest the inner city - it's not that big.

Dinner in the Albaicin.
Look at the prices - Granada has a touristical and a living part. You can
pay 20¤ for a good meal and the next street there is another restaurant
where you pay 8¤ for the same. Don't buy anything near the Plaza Nueva!

Evening visit to the Nasrim Palace in the Alhambra.
Perfect way to meet the Alhambra.

Day 2--Visit the entire Alhambra.
It ist very warm and full in May. They turn off the water in the palace
and have cut down some roofs that spend shadow. Just to make the tourist
leaving the palace faster. In the night they open the sluices and there is
a big river running down to Granada.

Sunset at P. St Nicholas in the Albaicin.
A "must"! - afterwards go the Elvira.

Often it is said that you shouldn't go to Granada because it is too
touristic - this is partly true, but still you *can* meet the real Granada
- cheap, friendly, alive.

cu

Micha

Thanks everyone for the replies. They were very helpful!

I'm looking forward to the trip....I've a bad feeling 2 weeks won't be enough

saludos
-Anthony