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#21
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Travelling to Rio
You can get the same problem in LA, Oakland, Santa Cruz... Mexican and
Black gangs there are very dangerous. JohnM wrote in message ... In article , P E T E R P A N writes -- snip snip -- I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark, scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time, out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted. Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs. -- snip snip -- Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the guy attacked you 'as you walked out'? |
#22
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Travelling to Rio
"dajaxon" wrote in message
... I woudl hope that other countries would understand why Americans are gunshy and may be subjecting travelers to unusual checks - by the way are any Brazilians help fight terrorism? just wondering? Of course Brazilians are all for fighting against terrorism. But "the war on terrorism" has (or should have) absolutely nothing to do with hassling third-world country's citizens. Most of the people involved with 9/11 would have been caught beforehand if the security checks already in place were applied (like for instance checking if Atta had actually enrolled in the school like he told the consulate general), and all terror scares after that came from Europe! But never once did the U.S. government told the Brazilian government that computer scanneable passports with biometric information would be an alternative for the extended hassle, like it is for Europeans. So it is hard for many Brazilians (yours truly included) to build the bridge between US-VISIT and "the war on terrorism." So since Brazil has placed these NEW get-back-atcha strategies, I happily take my business elsewhere. So will Brazilians, but I don't think this attitude will help anyone. BTW, these are OLD "get-back-atcha strategies." Brazil instituted a fee for issuing visas after U.S. did the same thing to Brazilian applicants. Brazilians banned visas issued by mail after the U.S. did the same thing to Brazilians. It is our prerrogative to treat U.S. citizens as well as they treat ours. I don't knock Brazilians by the way - I love their hospitality, language and varied races - but what purpose does the new strategy have? Inever n=knew Brazilian o be vindictive. "Vindictive" means there is an act of retribution involved. I think that "just" is the word you are looking for here. B. |
#23
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Travelling to Rio
**** Rio **** Brazil
"Bruno Carneiro da Cunha" wrote in message ... "dajaxon" wrote in message ... I woudl hope that other countries would understand why Americans are gunshy and may be subjecting travelers to unusual checks - by the way are any Brazilians help fight terrorism? just wondering? Of course Brazilians are all for fighting against terrorism. But "the war on terrorism" has (or should have) absolutely nothing to do with hassling third-world country's citizens. Most of the people involved with 9/11 would have been caught beforehand if the security checks already in place were applied (like for instance checking if Atta had actually enrolled in the school like he told the consulate general), and all terror scares after that came from Europe! But never once did the U.S. government told the Brazilian government that computer scanneable passports with biometric information would be an alternative for the extended hassle, like it is for Europeans. So it is hard for many Brazilians (yours truly included) to build the bridge between US-VISIT and "the war on terrorism." So since Brazil has placed these NEW get-back-atcha strategies, I happily take my business elsewhere. So will Brazilians, but I don't think this attitude will help anyone. BTW, these are OLD "get-back-atcha strategies." Brazil instituted a fee for issuing visas after U.S. did the same thing to Brazilian applicants. Brazilians banned visas issued by mail after the U.S. did the same thing to Brazilians. It is our prerrogative to treat U.S. citizens as well as they treat ours. I don't knock Brazilians by the way - I love their hospitality, language and varied races - but what purpose does the new strategy have? Inever n=knew Brazilian o be vindictive. "Vindictive" means there is an act of retribution involved. I think that "just" is the word you are looking for here. B. |
#24
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Travelling to Rio
Hi Luis,
Thanks for posting your thoughtful, honest and helpful information on this subject. The Italians in question are citizens of Italy, but permanent residents of the US in West Palm Beach, Florida. Perhaps the Brazil's counselate treat them differently? They mentioned specifically the US$140 visa fee and decided to stay away from Brazil! They were touring South America and were just enjoying entertainment with me in Argentina. They never seemed to have any strong opinions of anything, until the subject of Brazil's visa requirement came up! To answer other posters in this thread, the US was attacked by terrorists, hijacking 4 airliners full of passengers, including probably a few Brazilians and other nationalities, slamming them into US government and business centers. Those are very serious, all-out war acts! We need to take all measures to make sure such horrible acts can never again happen! As a traveler, I would want the US as well as all other countries to tighten their security, so my life, and those of my family and friends, will never be jeopardized by a few stupid, despicable terrorists! The US government and its low-paid, hard-working employees are responsible to provide this security to everyone traveling through its territory, with limited resources, while having to respond to other urgent needs and problems. There appear to be a bit of misunderstandings between peoples of different countries and cultures here. I am pretty sure the US government would love to have travelers from all countries to come to the US, spending money, bringing creative ideas, rich culture etc... to enrich its country. I am very sure the US government and most Americans are very unlikely to turn down money or good times...However, they have to balance those desires with the responsibilities to maintain security, laws and order, with limited resources, in a wide-open and free country, where people are allowed to move around and do things freely, and the enormous costs and difficulties in hiring officials to track down errant visitors after the fact. As reported by various sources, the average cost to the US government for each employee is about US$100,000 per year. That's the constraint with which the government must figure out how to manage its respinsiblities and resources. I don't understand why Brazilians, including a professor friend, would think the US government would act, not driven by absolutely critical needs, but to just spite and denigrate any people in the world with its visa procedures. This present elected US government has to provide for some very serious and urgent needs for the people. I do not believe it can afford to be anything but very practical and conservative. While I want the added security, as a US citizen, I do not like the new inconveniences imposed upon me personally, such as having to show up personally at various government agencies to confirm my identity for driver license, SS card, passport, waiting in long lines at airport security check points etc.... I am sure many people found the US government's immigration policies and practices, as well as attitudes of US embassy employees offensive. Please consider that they are required by US laws and political pressures to do very good jobs with very limited time and resources. Please also be informed that the bureaucrats at various US embassies are actually very low-paid workers, who have to work long, hard hours, exposing their families to a lot of personal risks and inconveniences, to do their jobs for their country. These bureaucrats are actually very near the bottom rungs on the socio-economic status ladder in the US. A lot of those workers are highly educated and idealistic young people, who bypass safety and comforts in the US, and better and bigger opportunities elsewhere, to work for the US diplomatic corp., just to be able to travel and to mix with other peoples of the world. My family has a few people working at various US embassies, so I understand their circumstances first-hand! Please understand their responsibilities and excuse them if they do not appear friendly. They are there to do very serious and professional jobs. If they are all friendly, then Osama Bin Laden would have smuggled divisions of Jihad terrorists into the US. To make friends, you may want to meet them after work hours, and show them your thoughtful concerns as well as the true goodness and hospitality of your people. That way you can both exchange your views and your culture without official restraints. I myself would be delighted to have open, honest, fun, friendly, equal and peaceful relationships with the peoples I visit, whether they are the kings of the heaps or just poor nomads tending their herds! I would rather focus on all possible short term and long term mutual benefits between respective peoples, and just ignore all the empty, self-serving posturing by the politicians! The American people is much bigger, more understanding and more generous than the narrowly-focused government it elects to serve. I know personally of a few critical needs from friendly countries that were met very quickly through the US democratic process, just on basis of mutual friendship. Another thing you should know about US bureaucrats is that they are very sensitive to keeping their low-paying government jobs and their retirement pensions. If you feel you have been mistreated or discriminated, by all means take down the names of the bureaucrats involved, along with the facts and witnesses. You should then write letters to the responsible managers to seek redress, or you should obtain lawyers and sue everyone involved for large compensations. I remember a few Bosnian women, who were raped by Slobodan Melosevich's troops, got contingency lawyers and sued the Bosnian government in a New York federal court in 2000, and were granted the rights to collect millions dollars of damages against that government. This option is recommended to people of friendly countries but is obviously closed to hostile, violent and evil tyrants like Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein etc... These terrorists are resolutely referred to the Big Complaints Office, staffed by the US Department of Defense with their brave young men and women, who expertly use their fine aircraft carriers, top-notch aircrafts, smart missiles and precision munitions to deal with any threats from evil terrorists.... Anyway, I hope that US bureaucrats are not losing our shirts processing the $100 visa applications with all that background checks required to filter out terrorists. I hope that these bureaucrats are smart enough to make the visa process very easy and dignified for people with worthwhile purposes, such as business meetings, technology conferences, scholarly exchanges, exchange students, medical treatments, charity activities… to promote mutual understanding, benefits and growth among peoples. I advised a few students in Argentina and Chile that public universities in California actively recruit a lot of top talents from many countries, paying tuition, activity fees and some living expenses, providing part-time jobs in teaching or research, primarily for graduate students in engineering and technologies, subsidized in parts by research grants from the US government. I heard that each department in each school has opening for 10 students from each major country. Schools in other states are presumably taking advantages of similar grant programs, so there should be a lot of openings. Of course the situation changes from year to year, depending on how much budget is left after the war against terrorists and the massive hiring of people and buying equipment to improve homeland security. Let's hope that we are all devoting our intelligence, energy and faith in improving peace, prosperity and happiness for all peoples! Joăo Luiz wrote in message ... I met some Italian tourists in Argentina who claimed they were charged US$140 for the visa, which they promptly skipped! These Italian tourists are wealthy and they could easily afford the visa fee. They could easily spend US$3000 per person or more, 20 times the visa fees on Brazilian products and services if they visit Brazil! However, these Italians did not think highly of the Brazilian government by its visa requirements, so they decide not to bother visiting Brazil. Sorry to say, but this information is as false as it can be. No citizen from the European Union needs a tourist visa for Brazil, the same way no Brazilians need any tourist visa for any country in the EU. I understand your logic, and to be sincere I do not get why some Brazilians go through the humiliation of getting a visa for the USA, when they could be spending their hard earned money in a place that treats them with a lot more dignity like Europe. I wanted to go to Rio to see the Carnaval, but it turns out to be a big disappointment. This festival is now organized in a staged location downtown Rio, called the Sambadromo, near the favela slum areas. If you had asked before, we could have warned you about the tourist trap Rio's Carnival has turned into. Any place e.g. in the Northeastern coast beats it by far. Sorry to read about your bad experience, but if you ever think of visiting Brazil again, my counsel is: just skip Rio. JL |
#25
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Travelling to Rio
Dear JohnM,
For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions. I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious injuries that night! You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you have good, unselfish motivations in this case! When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that " POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran towards them. When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel! A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found, through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time. My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all! Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of the list of countries I want to visit! JohnM wrote in message ... In article , P E T E R P A N writes -- snip snip -- I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark, scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time, out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted. Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs. -- snip snip -- Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the guy attacked you 'as you walked out'? |
#26
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Travelling to Rio
In article , P E T E R
P A N writes Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of the list of countries I want to visit! I thought you had. Never mind. -- JohnM Author of Brazil: Life, Blood, Soul http://www.scroll.demon.co.uk/spaver.htm |
#27
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Travelling to Rio
Hello!
Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the night in any major city in the world. Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool. Kurko On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N wrote: Dear JohnM, For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions. I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious injuries that night! You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you have good, unselfish motivations in this case! When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that " POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran towards them. When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel! A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found, through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time. My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all! Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of the list of countries I want to visit! JohnM wrote in message ... In article , P E T E R P A N writes -- snip snip -- I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark, scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time, out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted. Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs. -- snip snip -- Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the guy attacked you 'as you walked out'? -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
#28
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Travelling to Rio
I walked many cities at night, including LA, San Francisco, New York,
Miami, London, Paris, Rome, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Denpasar, Jakarta, Buenos Aires, Montevideo ... without any problems! It is the stupid, nasty *sshole like you and dumb thugs, thieves, robbers and the savages, who would p*ss on sidewalks and someone else' cars on the busy streets of Rio in broad day light, who should be removed from the gene pool! Stupid, ignorant nasty trash like you are a shame and a grave threat for all mankind! As everyone can see, this nasty guy Kurko confirms that Brazil is a very unsafe, lawless place, populated by a lot of dumb savages like himself. Visitors to Brazil, Rio and Sao Paolo, have a very high probability of getting robbed or beaten. Don't expect local people to help when you need it! Kurko wrote in message ... Hello! Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the night in any major city in the world. Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool. Kurko On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N wrote: Dear JohnM, For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions. I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious injuries that night! You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you have good, unselfish motivations in this case! When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that " POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran towards them. When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel! A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found, through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time. My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all! Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of the list of countries I want to visit! JohnM wrote in message ... In article , P E T E R P A N writes -- snip snip -- I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark, scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time, out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted. Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs. -- snip snip -- Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the guy attacked you 'as you walked out'? |
#29
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Travelling to Rio
Tell us how you really feel?
"Kurko" wrote in message news Hello! Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the night in any major city in the world. Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool. Kurko On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N wrote: Dear JohnM, For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions. I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious injuries that night! You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you have good, unselfish motivations in this case! When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP." but there were no response from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that " POLICIA ." may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran towards them. When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel! A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found, through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in Rio, Sao Paolo etc. which I will write down when I have time. My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all! Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of the list of countries I want to visit! JohnM wrote in message ... In article , P E T E R P A N writes -- snip snip -- I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark, scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time, out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted. Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs. -- snip snip -- Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the guy attacked you 'as you walked out'? -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
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Travelling to Rio
I can sympathize with your experience. Being threatened or robbed or
assaulted in a country one is travelling in is always very unsettling and can leave one with negative feelings about a country. Ignore the ignorant comments from whoever it is. But I still think it is important to not colour a whole nation by your experiences. Some places have more crime than others but crime can happen to anyone anywhere. My family and I have travelled a lot in many parts of the world. The only bad experiences we have had have been in Amsterdam, Panama City, and Copan, Honduras (we were only witnesses here, not personally threatened) And yet, overall, the experiences in those countries were still favourable on balance. I can't blame all the Dutch or all the Panamanians. It is important to deal with the feelings of fear, anger and violation after being assaulted like that and to overcome the negative feeling so you can go on to experience other travels feeling cautious and alert but not paranoid. P E T E R P A N wrote: I walked many cities at night, including LA, San Francisco, New York, Miami, London, Paris, Rome, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Denpasar, Jakarta, Buenos Aires, Montevideo ... without any problems! It is the stupid, nasty *sshole like you and dumb thugs, thieves, robbers and the savages, who would p*ss on sidewalks and someone else' cars on the busy streets of Rio in broad day light, who should be removed from the gene pool! Stupid, ignorant nasty trash like you are a shame and a grave threat for all mankind! As everyone can see, this nasty guy Kurko confirms that Brazil is a very unsafe, lawless place, populated by a lot of dumb savages like himself. Visitors to Brazil, Rio and Sao Paolo, have a very high probability of getting robbed or beaten. Don't expect local people to help when you need it! Kurko wrote in message ... Hello! Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the night in any major city in the world. Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool. Kurko On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N wrote: Dear JohnM, For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions. I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious injuries that night! You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you have good, unselfish motivations in this case! When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that " POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran towards them. When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel! A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found, through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time. My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all! Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of the list of countries I want to visit! JohnM wrote in message ... In article , P E T E R P A N writes -- snip snip -- I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark, scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time, out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted. Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs. -- snip snip -- Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the guy attacked you 'as you walked out'? |
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