Mastercard ATM problems: Warning!

Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
Alfred Molon wrote:
Is there a difference between a debit card and an ATM card ? Credit
cards give you a credit and you can pay back in rates, but debit cards
deduct the amount instantly or within a few days from your account.

The big difference between debit cards and ATMs, at least in the USA, is
that debit cards can be used to make purchases without a PIN. For this
reason debit cards are quite dangerous to lose compared to credit cards;
even though you'll eventually get your money back, while things are
investigated you have no access to your money. And of course if you lose an
ATM card then people can't use it unless they have your PIN.

My debit card requires a pin code at any instance. I guess US American
cards are odd exceptions to the other cards around.

Markku Gronroos

Dan,

I am a CharterOne customer too and if you phone them, they will
give you an ATM only card. I tried the local branch and they said
it couldn't be done so I called and a few days later I had my ATM
only card.

--
John Vittoe
"Chance Favors Only a Prepared Mind."
Louis Pasteur
www.vittoe.com

On Sat, 15 May 2004, Stephen Ellenson wrote:

"Tom Bellhouse" wrote in message
...

"Mark Fagan" wrote in
message
...
It's always a good idea to call your credit card
and ATM card providers
before going on a trip. A change in use
patterns might trigger an
anti-theft hold on your card, in which case you
then have to call home and
get it unblocked. Some companies will only do
this if you call from your
home phone, for security reasons. Obviously
tough to do in the middle of
Provence or where ever!



My card was blocked in Turkey. I was able to call
the 800 number on the back of the card, identify
myself, explain that it was "really me" in Turkey,
and get the block lifted. Much easier to d it
before leaving home, tho.

Tom

Ditto what others are saying, I always call my credit/atm card companies
before an international trip to tell them where I will be using the card(s).
And they always say that it is a good idea to call.



I, too, always call and they always say that it is a good idea
to let them know, yet nowhere in their liturature or card
agreements do they ever mention it. One customer service
agent said "well, it's just common sense, isn't it?" From the
number of people I've asked if they ever call their credit
card companies before travel who have said , "no, why should I?"
I can argue that it isn't common sense. Good practice, nonetheless.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Katherine Becker "As god is my witness
I thought turkeys could fly"
NEVER SEND A FERRET TO DO A WEASEL's JOB --WKRP

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My credit card can operate 2 accounts. The Credit Card account and the bank
account in one card using the same pin no. I used my CC to go shopping and
purchase. I can also used my Card to withdraw cash on both accounts at ATM
world wide. End of the month I go to the local ATM to settle my CC account
with my bank account by transfer. Same card. My local ATM has also got a
machine that I can put in cash. I dont need to go into the bank to deal with
the teller clerk at all. Yet its a 24 hours service with the ATM.

"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 May 2004 16:00:21 +0200, Alfred Molon
wrote:

S Viemeister wrote:

My bank automatically 'upgraded' me to a debit card. I insisted on
having
it changed back to a 'plain vanilla' ATM card, even though the first few
people I spoke to, insisted it was impossible and claimed that 'all our
cards are debit cards now'.

Is there a difference between a debit card and an ATM card ? Credit
cards give you a credit and you can pay back in rates, but debit cards
deduct the amount instantly or within a few days from your account.

Debit cards can be used to make purchases, as if they were a credit
card, without entering a PIN. ATM cards are normally used to withdraw
cash from an ATM, although they may also be used to make purchases in
shops that have a machine that swipes the card and allows the
entering of a PIN.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot
it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 May 2004 21:06:36 +0100, "JohnT"
wrote:

I have two UK Debit Cards. The first, issued by Cahoot, is a Visa Debit Card
and
it also has Link and Delta logos. I have used this extensively to pay for
goods
and hotel accommodation throughout Europe and the USA. The second card is a
NatWest Servicecard 250 which has Switch, Maestro and Cirrus logos. I haven't
used this for goods and services outside the UK but have no reason to think
it
wouldn't be accepted. And with both cards I can, of course, get cash from any
ATM.

Do you have to use a PIN with the Switch card? If so it's what I would
call an ATM card. If not, it's a true debit card. I realize the term
"ATM card" is maybe misleading, as they can be used to purchase goods,
but it's the only way I know to distinguish those cards that require a
PIN for all functions. They are safer than a debit card.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan

I use a PIN at ATMs (in the UK) but not when paying for goods and services. For
those I sign a receipt and am given a copy. All of this is slowly changing (for
all cards) as Chip and PIN terminals come into use.

JohnT

I would find a new bank. Yes there should be an effort to fight fraud
and recognizing unusual purchases is useful. The question is what is
done in the case of an unusual purchase. A while ago I purchased a
telescope for my wife's birthday. I used a card which had been dormant
for a while and the bank was concerned. The retailer called bank
security and after talking with me and having the retailer check my ID
there was no problem. That was proper fraud prevention. To block the
purchase without any attempt at intervention isn't fraud prevention it
is simply sloth.

Hawth Hill wrote:
in article , JohnT at
wrote on 05/15/2004 9:06 PM:


I have two UK Debit Cards. The first, issued by Cahoot, is a Visa Debit Card
and it also has Link and Delta logos. I have used this extensively to pay for
goods and hotel accommodation throughout Europe and the USA. The second card is a
NatWest Servicecard 250 which has Switch, Maestro and Cirrus logos. I haven't
used this for goods and services outside the UK but have no reason to think it
wouldn't be accepted. And with both cards I can, of course, get cash from any
ATM.

I have two U.S. VISA credit cards. As well as a Brit VISA credit card and a
debit card.

For what it's worth, I've never had any trouble with any of them while
travelling. The ATMs have always honored them.

Yet, here in my little town in England, when I bought my wife a ring for our
anniversary, my card was dishonored, . . and was also dishonored in
subsequent days, even for routine purchases, such as at the local
supermarket.

My telephone call to the company disclosed that my purchase of the ring, for
what the company's computer thought was an "unusual" amount, set off alarm
bells, and got my card flagged.

The lesson I learned was that, if I'm expecting to make unusual purchases,
in unusual places, it wouldn't hurt to give the company a heads-up by phone
in advance.

After all, we all want to contribute to the effort to fight credit card
fraud.

HH

Did you take it by the local branch to educate them?

John Vittoe wrote:

Dan,

I am a CharterOne customer too and if you phone them, they will
give you an ATM only card. I tried the local branch and they said
it couldn't be done so I called and a few days later I had my ATM
only card.

Chip & PIN

http://software.silicon.com/security...9120778,00.htm

What incentive is there for a cardholder to have a PIN with the new
type Chip and PIN credit card if they are never going to use it to
withdraw 'expensive,' cash at an ATM?

Questions worth asking:
Will high-value credit cards & PINs become the target for fraudsters?
Fraudsters are already shoulder surfing, using mini-cameras,
high-powered binoculars, phishing on the net and making bogus calls
just to get hold of banking details AND PINS.

Just think acquire both and they can get money at an ATM which they
couldn't do if the card is not operated by a PIN, or alternatively
they can go into a Chip and PIN compliant retailer and spend until
their hearts content. What will happen to them - nothing. They won't
be challenged at point of sale but the card they are using might be
withheld at a cash machine.

Will access to 'easy money,' be too tempting for the weak willed? Is
this another ploy by the card companies?
Will victims of PIN based fraud be liable if their cards used before
they report it lost or stolen? How will they prove they weren't
negligent with their PIN. (See Banking Code, articles 12.4 Taking Care
and 12.9 Liability).

Is it compulsory or a legal requirement for a cardholder to accept a
PIN with their Chip and PIN card?

Why does the card industry fail to mention Chip and Signature Cards?

Will Chip & PIN prevent ID Theft or CNP fraud?

Are card issuers delivery methods of PINs secure? (Do they call the
cardholder to see it they've safely received their PIN)?

Why are ATMs where PINs are used all the time not more secure. (Banks
own ATMs in iat least two Middle East countries are covered by the
latest digital CCTV. This is for two reasons, one to deter ATM crime
and two to resolve disputed customer transaction). A sobering though,
ATM fraud rose by 37% last year.
PIN Pads, look at the examples on the Chip & PIN web site. How can you
hold a PIN Pad in one hand, enter your PIN with the other and cover
the pad at the same time?

Why is the card industry giving out misleading information on the
availability of Chip & Signature cards, especially for the disabled.
(From the Egg web site. Even when you get your new card you might find
that you're still asked to sign for some purchases. The retailer will
always let you know whether you need to enter your PIN or sign for
your purchase. This is because not all retailers will have the new
equipment yet, but all retailers will be upgrading within the next
12-24 months. After this time you won't be able to make a purchase
without your PIN.)

Is the last sentence true or false? Enter a Chip & Signature card and
the prompt for the cardholder and retailer will be Signature required.

Just a few question and thoughts on a scheme that seems to being
bulldozed through for cardholders. Retailers have a choice and it
appears that there's a liability shift for fraud - directly on to the
PIN cardholder. What incentive I ask?

Tom Bellhouse wrote:
My card was blocked in Turkey. I was able to call
the 800 number on the back of the card, identify
myself, explain that it was "really me" in Turkey,
and get the block lifted. Much easier to d it
before leaving home, tho.

Since when do 800 numbers work in Turkey?
Maybe you mean Turkey, TX.

Madonna wrote:
Tom Bellhouse wrote:
My card was blocked in Turkey. I was able to call
the 800 number on the back of the card, identify
myself, explain that it was "really me" in Turkey,
and get the block lifted. Much easier to d it
before leaving home, tho.

Since when do 800 numbers work in Turkey?

Why wouldn't it? They work pretty much everywhere else in Europe.
Just dial 001 first.

miguel