What food do you think of when you think of Beijing?

as for mascots, I have been made a mascot by many, both here and in the USA, because of my achievements -

Let's see. You were born chinese. You change your name to hide your
chinese identity. Then you travel half way around the world to sing
foreign songs in a foreign language for the entertainment of foreign
white people, who flock to "look" at you, the token non-dane in the
danish opera. OK. Uh huh.

To each his own. As for me, I prefer to stay in the country of my
birth and work for my country. Being a vagabond mercenary "guest
worker" is not for me.

You are obviously so ignorant about what went on in South East Asia that
you dribble away nonsense. All Chinese had to change their Chinese names if
they want to remain in Indonesia. This happened when I was 8 years old. I
couldn't really take up arms against the issue or go abroad at that time,
could I? I finally did, and never returned. Opera had always been my
passion, even when I was an engineer, and to finally make it on to the stage
at the London Coliseum was nothing that you could imagine in your wildest
dreams, Mark. Music has no national connotation - it is international and
lowers the boundaries that separate peoples of different nations; it also
promotes friendship and understanding amongst peoples. You will never
understand this because you have nothing to do with music, nor have you
attended the glorious opera performances that bring joy to the hearts of
millions.
Working for your country, huh? Do you call what you do "working for your
country"? Blithering idiot.
J.

"Ira Humperdink MD" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let's see. You were born chinese. You change your name to hide your
chinese identity. Then you travel half way around the world to sing
foreign songs in a foreign language for the entertainment of foreign
white people, who flock to "look" at you, the token non-dane in the
danish opera. OK. Uh huh.

To each his own. As for me, I prefer to stay in the country of my
birth and work for my country. Being a vagabond mercenary "guest
worker" is not for me.

Mr. Venning,
First, I did not mean to demean your professional accomlishments. At
least you are a successful guy, unlike that Peng fellow who is all talk
not action.

Second, thank you for explaining the Indonesian situation to me. I did
not realize all chinese from indonesia had to change their names by
law. I knew a chinese lady from malaysia and she kept her chinese
family name. but I guess malaysia is not indonesia.

Third, have you dis-avowed indoensia as your home because they treat
chinese so badly? Do you consider indonesia an unfriendly place? Do
you still love indonesia?

Fourth, I don't think how opera can be an "international" language if
they sing mainly in italian or some romance langauge that most chinese
and americans do not understand. Hah! Opera is the language of
snobbery. The true international langauge is pop music. MOre people
understand elton john or michaal jackson than opera.

MD

J.Venning wrote:
"Resist coercion", did you say? Why didn't the 6 million exterminated
Jews "resist this coercion" during WW2? You are really talking out of your
league, aren't you, Blithering Idiot? As to honouring one's ancestors, are
you an example? When did the Danes ever colonise Indonesia? Ever heard of
the Dutch East Indies? Nah. As for mascots, I have been made a mascot by
many, both here and in the USA, because of my achievements - something *you*
will never experience. I am the only Overseas Chinese who can brag about
being the only non-diplomat and non-Dane, who was asked to make the formal
opening speech on the Danish Constitution Day in New York.
J.

as for mascots, I have been made a mascot by many, both here and in the USA, because of my achievements -

Let's see. You were born chinese. You change your name to hide your
chinese identity. Then you travel half way around the world to sing
foreign songs in a foreign language for the entertainment of foreign
white people, who flock to "look" at you, the token non-dane in the
danish opera. OK. Uh huh.
To each his own. As for me, I prefer to stay in the country of my
birth and work for my country. Being a vagabond mercenary "guest
worker" is not for me.

Well, MD, have you remembered to take the right pills at last? There can
be some sense in you when the neurons are nudged into place.
My professional accomplishments speak for themselves, when I say that
opera is an extremely competitive world - only the best get up there.
Malaysia is definitely *not* Indonesia, and I am not an Indonesian. The
fact that I happened to be born there doesn't automatically mean that I am a
native of that country. Both my parents came from China. Would you call
yourself a Nigerian, if you happened to be born there during while your
parents were working on a project? Incidentally, I carry a British passport.
Ah, how does one define "home"? A "home" is where the heart is, where
your family and friends welcome you and you them, where you feel that what
you do benefits the community in which you share your joys and troubles, and
where you see all the things in which you believe are upheld with respect.
Indonesia doesn't offer me any of those, but Denmark does. I am a part of my
community, and I contribute freely to it and it to me. Denmark is actually
number one on the list I wrote a few days ago, about the country whose
people are happiest.
I definitely do not consider Indonesia an unfriendly place, but some of
the lesser educated natives are, and let's just say that I would like to
take a very long holiday away from it. How can I love Indonesia, when it
doesn't love me? I don't go for unrequited love affaires.
Opera is the entertainment for the enlightened. People who cannot love
opera are unfortunately the ones who do not appreciate the heritage of the
Western Civilization. I have sung in Beijing twice now, and each time, I was
hailed as a hero returning to his Motherland by the audiences. They might
not have understood every single word of the various languages in which I
sang, but my artistry conveyed the emotions only classical music can
project, not pop music. That I could do this in the land of my true
ancestors was a God-given gift to me.
J.

"Ira Humperdink MD" wrote in message
ups.com...
Mr. Venning,
First, I did not mean to demean your professional accomlishments. At
least you are a successful guy, unlike that Peng fellow who is all talk
not action.

Second, thank you for explaining the Indonesian situation to me. I did
not realize all chinese from indonesia had to change their names by
law. I knew a chinese lady from malaysia and she kept her chinese
family name. but I guess malaysia is not indonesia.

Third, have you dis-avowed indoensia as your home because they treat
chinese so badly? Do you consider indonesia an unfriendly place? Do
you still love indonesia?

Fourth, I don't think how opera can be an "international" language if
they sing mainly in italian or some romance langauge that most chinese
and americans do not understand. Hah! Opera is the language of
snobbery. The true international langauge is pop music. MOre people
understand elton john or michaal jackson than opera.

MD

Opera?

Many old Asians or FOBs love western classical opera because it is a
sign of 'status' - anything that smacks of being
European/Caucasian is pretty much adored in the Far East these days -
from Eurasian kids posing for sleepwear on billboards to blonde models
for cosmetic products to a sprinkling of heavily accented English in
pop songs etc - not realizing the cachet of opera & classical music in
the US/America among many Americans is low, sterile, effete,
old-fashioned, and dated especially among the under 30s or 40s crowd.
But many old lower and middle class East Asians still want the
opportunity to say 'oh, I've seen this La Boheme at the Met! See
how cultured I am!' and thus able to brag about this to their
friends.

Joke's on them! It's now hip and higher status to say that you
spent your month discovering a forgotten island in Thailand than to say
you had flown to Bayreuth to see The Ring - which some say is (awww,
now, come on here...you serious?....) ANTISEMITE! If not RACIST!

Or better yet, just catalog which posh restaurant's restroom in NYC
is best to sniff coke. That may be of even higher bragging value. Like
"see how high I am (no pun intended) - I can afford such
decadence!"

But there can be a cross-cultural dimension here. If, say, an Irish
becomes an expert in Japanese cuisine it is indeed remarkable. If a
Japanese knows a lot about sushi etc it is nothing extraordinary. Maybe
many are motivated by this psychology. Or they may really like this
girly or women stuff themselves like poetry (there is a reason I'm
saying this - again from sociobiology - but I don't have time to
elaborate) and I am certainly not discounting this group.

Upper middle class/near-rich Americans have 'been there, done that'
with opera and ballet - a stage that some nouveau riche Asians are
still trying to pass through these days. I say 'Americans' rather
than 'whites' or 'westerners' as many Europeans see it as a
staple of their culture so they don't think much of it - like the
French drinking their Bordeaux. The wind of globalization (an example
being you should know or at least pretend to know about a lot about
another culture) is in full force from fusion cuisine to outsourcing to
interracial marriage.

That's not to discount opera of course - some really truly enjoy and
believe it. When I'm senile, that is.

The world -- not some crime-ridden primate inner-city hellhole -- is
the upper class playground!!

Ira Humperdink MD wrote:
J.Venning wrote:
"Resist coercion", did you say? Why didn't the 6 million exterminated
Jews "resist this coercion" during WW2? You are really talking out of your
league, aren't you, Blithering Idiot? As to honouring one's ancestors, are
you an example? When did the Danes ever colonise Indonesia? Ever heard of
the Dutch East Indies? Nah. As for mascots, I have been made a mascot by
many, both here and in the USA, because of my achievements - something *you*
will never experience. I am the only Overseas Chinese who can brag about
being the only non-diplomat and non-Dane, who was asked to make the formal
opening speech on the Danish Constitution Day in New York.
J.

as for mascots, I have been made a mascot by many, both here and in the USA, because of my achievements -

Let's see. You were born chinese. You change your name to hide your
chinese identity. Then you travel half way around the world to sing
foreign songs in a foreign language for the entertainment of foreign
white people, who flock to "look" at you, the token non-dane in the
danish opera. OK. Uh huh.
To each his own. As for me, I prefer to stay in the country of my
birth and work for my country. Being a vagabond mercenary "guest
worker" is not for me.

"RichAsianKid" wrote in message
ups.com...
Many old Asians or FOBs love western classical opera because it is a
sign of 'status' - anything that smacks of being
European/Caucasian is pretty much adored in the Far East these days -
from Eurasian kids posing for sleepwear on billboards to blonde models
for cosmetic products to a sprinkling of heavily accented English in
pop songs etc - not realizing the cachet of opera & classical music in
the US/America among many Americans is low, sterile, effete,
old-fashioned, and dated especially among the under 30s or 40s crowd.
But many old lower and middle class East Asians still want the
opportunity to say 'oh, I've seen this La Boheme at the Met! See
how cultured I am!' and thus able to brag about this to their
friends.

This is a clear indication that you do not appreciate Western culture,
since opera in the West is an acquired taste for culture that demands a
higher intelligence to understand and like - unlike rock or rap.
J.

On 22 Jan 2006 19:02:04 -0800, "RichAsianKid"
wrote:

Opera?

Many old Asians or FOBs love western classical opera because it is a
sign of 'status' - anything that smacks of being
European/Caucasian is pretty much adored in the Far East these days -
from Eurasian kids posing for sleepwear on billboards to blonde models
for cosmetic products to a sprinkling of heavily accented English in
pop songs etc - not realizing the cachet of opera & classical music in
the US/America among many Americans is low, sterile, effete,
old-fashioned, and dated especially among the under 30s or 40s crowd.
[snip]

That's only because they haven't had much exposure to it.

I regularly teach an Intro to Opera course at a university in the U.S.
with a large population of foreign students, especially from East and
South Asia, and it's a really popular course.

I don't think much of people who consider opera merely a status
symbol. The reason to go to an opera is because it's a great and
unparallelled multimedia experience. Same with non-Western opera, like
Beijing Opera, Kabuki, and Southeast Asian operatic styles (e.g.
Wayang Wong in Central Java, Makyong in Kelantan).

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

J.Venning wrote:
"RichAsianKid" wrote in message
ups.com...
Many old Asians or FOBs love western classical opera because it is a
sign of 'status' - anything that smacks of being
European/Caucasian is pretty much adored in the Far East these days -
from Eurasian kids posing for sleepwear on billboards to blonde models
for cosmetic products to a sprinkling of heavily accented English in
pop songs etc - not realizing the cachet of opera & classical music in
the US/America among many Americans is low, sterile, effete,
old-fashioned, and dated especially among the under 30s or 40s crowd.
But many old lower and middle class East Asians still want the
opportunity to say 'oh, I've seen this La Boheme at the Met! See
how cultured I am!' and thus able to brag about this to their
friends.

This is a clear indication that you do not appreciate Western culture,
since opera in the West is an acquired taste for culture that demands a
higher intelligence to understand and like - unlike rock or rap.
J.

I know I'm a brute. I've been told that many many times from the older
gen. I don't really love people who sentimentally gush over just how
they want how their Australian Shiraz should smell like etc etc. I
prefer Burger King and beer actually. But that's me. It may even be
biologically driven, who knows.

But anyway. Opera or this sissy or rather this 'classy' music stuff is
for degenerates (no pun there!! hahahaa) anyway. I just don't think
that, say, Puccini's Turandot speaks to the modern generation. He may
be gay anyway I don't know, like Oscar Wilde. Wagner, on the other
hand, has some masculine appeal. Yet he's easily labelled racist and/or
anti-semite too.

You just can't win. As they say choose your heroes carefully.

Oh and BTW people will say you're discriminatory against rock/rap -
you're saying that even stupid people will understand them?

"RichAsianKid" wrote in message
oups.com...
I know I'm a brute. I've been told that many many times from the older
gen. I don't really love people who sentimentally gush over just how
they want how their Australian Shiraz should smell like etc etc. I
prefer Burger King and beer actually. But that's me. It may even be
biologically driven, who knows.

But anyway. Opera or this sissy or rather this 'classy' music stuff is
for degenerates (no pun there!! hahahaa) anyway. I just don't think
that, say, Puccini's Turandot speaks to the modern generation. He may
be gay anyway I don't know, like Oscar Wilde. Wagner, on the other
hand, has some masculine appeal. Yet he's easily labelled racist and/or
anti-semite too.

You just can't win. As they say choose your heroes carefully.

Oh and BTW people will say you're discriminatory against rock/rap -
you're saying that even stupid people will understand them?

I think you have described yourself rather clearly here, and no one will
try to change your mind or opinion about opera or anything else. If you
don't think that "Turandot" speaks to the modern generation, you will need
hearing aid. Puccini was not a homosexual, but even if he were, does that
make his music less good? I am sure you have chosen your heroes very
carefully. Yes, I am very discriminatory against rock/rap, so? Am I not
allowed to have my personal values? Stupid people will not understand
anything - not even rock or rap - but they will follow whatever the media or
salesmen tell them what to buy and listen.
J.