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#61
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Military Coup in the offing
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:23:26 +0800, alex®
wrote: Pan wrote: On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:06:31 +0800, alex® wrote: But it's infuriating when you know Estrada is going to win the elections when the opinion polls come in. Imagine how Ramos must have felt...all his good work down the drain and Phillipines set back another decade or two. How do you think I felt with returns coming in for G.W. Bush, whether based on fraud or not? But the only thing worse than letting an evil or criminally incompetent leader win an election is to destroy the integrity of the process, and had it been Gore and not Bush who won through all of that crap in Florida and the Supreme Court, I would have been just as livid. Then again, when Bush was selected by the Supreme Court in 2000, I only thought I knew how bad he would be; in 2004, I already knew that he is way, way worse than I could have possibly imagined. Yes, elections are deeply frustrating and infuriating. But who is ultimately more qualified to choose their leaders than the electorate? Democracy means "the people rule." That's what it's all about. Whatever faults Bush might have, I think it's grossly unfair to compare him to that nincompoop Estrada. And another difference was that the race between Bush and Kerry was the closest in the history Where do you get that idea from? presidential elections so the agony only began after the results, unlike in the case of Estrada where you already knew he was going to win months in advance. If the people of the Philippines are electing a nincompoop, the majority who elect him deserve the foreseeable consequences. That's democracy. I mostly agree with the things you say about democracy, but frustrating and infuriating pretty much sums up what I think about democracy when it comes to SE Asia. That's no different from the experience of the opposition in every country with an elective system of government. Get used to it. Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. |
#62
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Military Coup in the offing
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@..
wrote: Pan wrote: On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...." wrote: [snip] Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain peaceful [snip] Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of "peace" to break out all over! Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful. You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's "peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against Thais or Thailand. Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. |
#63
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Military Coup in the offing
Estrada was less a dishonest President than the incumbent. "Pan" wrote in message ... On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:23:26 +0800, alex® wrote: Pan wrote: On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:06:31 +0800, alex® wrote: But it's infuriating when you know Estrada is going to win the elections when the opinion polls come in. Imagine how Ramos must have felt...all his good work down the drain and Phillipines set back another decade or two. How do you think I felt with returns coming in for G.W. Bush, whether based on fraud or not? But the only thing worse than letting an evil or criminally incompetent leader win an election is to destroy the integrity of the process, and had it been Gore and not Bush who won through all of that crap in Florida and the Supreme Court, I would have been just as livid. Then again, when Bush was selected by the Supreme Court in 2000, I only thought I knew how bad he would be; in 2004, I already knew that he is way, way worse than I could have possibly imagined. Yes, elections are deeply frustrating and infuriating. But who is ultimately more qualified to choose their leaders than the electorate? Democracy means "the people rule." That's what it's all about. Whatever faults Bush might have, I think it's grossly unfair to compare him to that nincompoop Estrada. And another difference was that the race between Bush and Kerry was the closest in the history Where do you get that idea from? presidential elections so the agony only began after the results, unlike in the case of Estrada where you already knew he was going to win months in advance. If the people of the Philippines are electing a nincompoop, the majority who elect him deserve the foreseeable consequences. That's democracy. I mostly agree with the things you say about democracy, but frustrating and infuriating pretty much sums up what I think about democracy when it comes to SE Asia. That's no different from the experience of the opposition in every country with an elective system of government. Get used to it. Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. |
#64
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Military Coup in the offing
"Tchiowa" kirjoitti glegroups.com... Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you self-proclaimed elites are. Are they? Now here's a little fact you won't like. The areas of the country where people have more exposure to foreigners are Southern California, Texas and Florida. Ever hear of Mexico? If I recall it right, Tsoots Dabljuu secured the post by his younger brother Jeb who was/is the senator of Florida and the ballot boxes were a bit tampered in favour of Tsoots. Anyways, few people mind who is the president of the USA. Whoever he (or perhaps even "she" sometime in future) is, he fills only the boots of an errand boy. |
#65
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Military Coup in the offing
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...." wrote:
So you are going to join that Sondhi Limthongkul this Sunday to protest against Thaksin. Sorry - this Sunday I was watching the snow fall in Antwerp. Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain peaceful and make a little progress. Possibly - maybe the Al Qaida is a good example. On the other hand as an investor in the country I'm very keen on it remaining peaceful & making a lot of progress. So far I haven't seen any violence in the demonstrations. Dave |
#66
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Military Coup in the offing
On 6 Mar 2006 04:35:30 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:
Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you self-proclaimed elites are. Are they? I didn't make up the voting pattern, nor the analysis. I'm just pointing out the similarities. Seems you voted for Bush? :-) I suggest you go back to looking for that building in Bangkok that says Unocal on the front door. Maybe it's in the magic wardrobe upstairs. I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. I have the form on my desk waiting for you. Until then, your yapping doesn't interest me at all. Dave |
#67
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Military Coup in the offing
Pan wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@.. wrote: Pan wrote: On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...." wrote: [snip] Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain peaceful [snip] Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of "peace" to break out all over! Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful. You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's "peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against Thais or Thailand. So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to people like you. |
#68
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Military Coup in the offing
.....lobert.... wrote: Pan wrote: On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@.. wrote: Pan wrote: On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...." wrote: [snip] Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain peaceful [snip] Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of "peace" to break out all over! Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful. You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's "peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against Thais or Thailand. So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to people like you. But in this thread he was right - you did the idiotic accusations - and still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in SCT! |
#69
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Military Coup in the offing
Chabon 19 wrote:
....lobert.... wrote: Pan wrote: On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@.. wrote: Pan wrote: On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...." wrote: [snip] Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand remain peaceful [snip] Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of "peace" to break out all over! Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful. You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's "peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against Thais or Thailand. So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to people like you. But in this thread he was right - you did the idiotic accusations - and still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in SCT! While thousands protest in Bangkok, rural residents have no complaints BAAN SUKSOMBOON (Thailand) — From her wooden stilt house surrounded by rice padi fields, Ms Sudjai Srimongkol stared down at her grunting piglets and chirping chicks on Sunday, shrugging off a question about the tens of thousands of anti-government demonstrators that had gathered a six-hour drive away in Bangkok. .. "I've never heard anyone here complain about Thaksin," Mr Sudjai said, referring to embattled Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. "Everyone says he has helped them a lot." .. Mr Thaksin faced on Sunday what his opponents said would be a decisive moment in their campaign to oust him. According to official estimates, between 50,000 and 100,000 protesters marched through the capital, vowing they would not go home until the premier resigned. .. But in rural areas, where about two-thirds of Thailand's 63 million people live, Mr Thaksin's popularity remains untarnished. Here in the country's vast and populous rice-farming heartland, it approaches adoration. Farmers and owners of small businesses say their lives have been transformed and that their incomes have doubled during Mr Thaksin's five years in power. .. "Even if someone paid me I wouldn't go to an anti-Thaksin demonstration," said Mr Suwat Laocharuen, the village chief of Baan Nonsawan, a short drive from Ms Sudjai's stilt house. "We just love him." .. Both Mr Thaksin and his opponents expect the premier's party to win the most seats in the snap poll scheduled for April 2. But in a sign of the deepening split between Bangkok and the provinces, the opposition — which draws much of its support from Bangkok and parts of southern Thailand — has decided to boycott the election. .. Mr Thaksin's opponents have accused him of corruption and abuse of power, charging that he has stripped key institutions of their independence — the courts, the press, the anti-corruption authorities — and that he uses his office to further his business interests. .. The tax-free sale of his family communications firm to Singapore's investment company, Temasek, for US$1.9 billion ($3.1 billion) in January set off the latest round of protests. .. But the argument that Mr Thaksin must therefore resign does not wash with Mr Suwat, the village chief. "It's not fair that a leader gets two-thirds of the vote and then is brought down by street demonstrations," he said. .. In the February election last year, Mr Thaksin won 61 per cent of the vote, a landslide by Thai standards. In a country with a long history of messy coalitions, his Thai Rak Thai party was the first to win an absolute majority. In many rural areas, his party swept all of the seats. .. Mr Thaksin cemented the loyalty of rural Thais with a three-year moratorium on their debts and a government programme that offered US$26,000 to every village in Thailand, from which residents could borrow for small business ventures. .. Partly as a result, rural incomes increased 29 per cent in 2001, the first year Mr Thaksin was in power, 23 per cent the next year, and by double digits each year since. Last year, the average rural income reached US$821, according to the Rural Development Information Center of the Interior Ministry. .. Baan Suksomboon villagers said they would be bitter if Mr Thaksin is removed from power. .. "Of course I will be angry," said Mr Muthita Shinpromma, who works at a factory stitching Nike sweatpants for US$3.70 a day. "Thaksin is helping people at the grassroots." .. Mr Thaksin also began a health scheme allowing Thais to obtain any medical treatment for just 77 American cents per visit. .. When asked why he supported Mr Thaksin, Mr Prachan Gaewchamlong lifted his shirt, revealing many scars. A serious motorcycle accident last year left him with a broken jaw, ribs, and hip. His total medical bill, he said: 77 American cents. .. Mr Prachan, a rice farmer, said he was convinced that the people demonstrating against Mr Thaksin were being paid to show up. The passions of the protesting university students, professors, and professionals suggest otherwise, but his suspicion suggests how polarised Thai society is today. — THE NEW YORK TIMES |
#70
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Military Coup in the offing
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:23:55 +0800, alex®
wrote: Pan wrote: Whatever faults Bush might have, I think it's grossly unfair to compare him to that nincompoop Estrada. And another difference was that the race between Bush and Kerry was the closest in the history Where do you get that idea from? Well for one, the US is still a superpower and life is still good in the ol US of A. [snip] Where do you get the idea that the race between Bush and Kerry was the closest in history? presidential elections so the agony only began after the results, unlike in the case of Estrada where you already knew he was going to win months in advance. If the people of the Philippines are electing a nincompoop, the majority who elect him deserve the foreseeable consequences. That's democracy. That just doesn't cut it with me. I could similarly say that if the people of a country choose to let a bad dictator lord it over them, then they deserve the circumstances they find themselves in. Well, what's your solution? Who would you have choosing the leadership, if not the people? I mostly agree with the things you say about democracy, but frustrating and infuriating pretty much sums up what I think about democracy when it comes to SE Asia. That's no different from the experience of the opposition in every country with an elective system of government. Get used to it. Well I don't have much of a choice, do I? You don't, I don't, none of us do. Except for evildoers who would presume to wrest power illegally. Michael If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted. |
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