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#21
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"JohnT" wrote in message ... Why? Travelling by air, even taking into account the fact that occasionally really nasty things happen, is 99.99 per cent safe. Very few people would make air trips if flying were that unsafe. There would be a crash about once a day in the USA. Guesstimate that each of the top 25 airports in the USA have an average of 300 departures per day (some have much more). That makes vaguely 7500 departures per day, just counting the major airports. JohnT threw out the number of one problem per ten thousand flights. That would mean roughly one airliner crash per day in the USA. There have been about 1000 days since "9/11". IIRC, it has been a number of years since a mainline US airliner crash. Even on the disastrous day of 9/11, if you had a scheduled departure from any US airport chosen at random between 7 and 10 am, the chance of being on one of the crashed airliners was probably not more than one in a thousand - and that is the ONLY "bad" day on record. The historical incidence of crashes is around one in a million takeoffs for reputable airlines, not one in ten thousand. Is your likelihood of dying tomorrow from other causes as low as one in a million? People only live about 25,000 - 30,000 days. |
#22
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"R J Carpenter" wrote in message ... "JohnT" wrote in message ... Why? Travelling by air, even taking into account the fact that occasionally really nasty things happen, is 99.99 per cent safe. Very few people would make air trips if flying were that unsafe. There would be a crash about once a day in the USA. Guesstimate that each of the top 25 airports in the USA have an average of 300 departures per day (some have much more). That makes vaguely 7500 departures per day, just counting the major airports. JohnT threw out the number of one problem per ten thousand flights. That would mean roughly one airliner crash per day in the USA. There have been about 1000 days since "9/11". IIRC, it has been a number of years since a mainline US airliner crash. I believe the last one was the Airbus that went down over Brooklyn. Those of us with at least 3-4 decades under our belts can remember a time when commercial airliners went down a couple times every year, and that was in countries with state-of-the-art aircraft and control systems. Example: Windshear. When was the last time you heard of an airliner being brought down by windshear? Last incident I can recall in the US was at DFW in the mid-1980s. Since then airports have installed detection equipment. |
#23
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"R J Carpenter" wrote in message ... "JohnT" wrote in message ... Why? Travelling by air, even taking into account the fact that occasionally really nasty things happen, is 99.99 per cent safe. Very few people would make air trips if flying were that unsafe. There would be a crash about once a day in the USA. Guesstimate that each of the top 25 airports in the USA have an average of 300 departures per day (some have much more). That makes vaguely 7500 departures per day, just counting the major airports. JohnT threw out the number of one problem per ten thousand flights. That would mean roughly one airliner crash per day in the USA. There have been about 1000 days since "9/11". IIRC, it has been a number of years since a mainline US airliner crash. I believe the last one was the Airbus that went down over Brooklyn. Those of us with at least 3-4 decades under our belts can remember a time when commercial airliners went down a couple times every year, and that was in countries with state-of-the-art aircraft and control systems. Example: Windshear. When was the last time you heard of an airliner being brought down by windshear? Last incident I can recall in the US was at DFW in the mid-1980s. Since then airports have installed detection equipment. |
#24
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"Fly Guy" wrote in message ... Ender wrote: Mike wrote: Federal air marshals protect less than 5 percent of daily U.S. True or not, it wouldn't be a problem if everyone believed that air marshals were on every flight. What's even more logical is this: After 9/11, the popular impression that it's best to cooperate with hijackers was thrown out the window. What most people now believe (I'm sure) is that it's best to combat hijackers immediately - and not be just a plane-load of sheep. I would imagine that any would-be jihaddi hijackers are also aware that travelers are already on a hair-trigger. Examine the incidents since 9/11: An insane/drunk man rushes to the cockpit door and the passengers promptly flatten him. A person with a mental disorder or someone who's intoxicated won't be deterred by a pre-flight announcement. What the US Gov't and FAA SHOULD have done after 9/11 is to add the following line to the pre-recorded message played on all commercial flights prior to take-off: "You may be called upon by a member of the crew or fellow passengers to assist them in disarming or detaining anyone threatening the safety of this aircraft." That single innocuous statement alone is worth more than a thousand air-marshalls. It turns every flight into a plane full of air marshalls. No self-respecting hijacker, upon hearing such a message on test-flight after test-flight, would ever consider a hi-jacking al-la 9/11 again. The jihadis plan and rehearse their attacks. Based on their history, if they plan to hijack another airliner they already know the passengers will put up a fight. If there is a genuine hijacking, do you really think an FA with a knife to her throat is going to have the presence of mind to ask the passengers to detain her captor? Do you honestly believe a jihaddi hijacker will be scared by your announcement? I don't. |
#25
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"Fly Guy" wrote in message ... Ender wrote: Mike wrote: Federal air marshals protect less than 5 percent of daily U.S. True or not, it wouldn't be a problem if everyone believed that air marshals were on every flight. What's even more logical is this: After 9/11, the popular impression that it's best to cooperate with hijackers was thrown out the window. What most people now believe (I'm sure) is that it's best to combat hijackers immediately - and not be just a plane-load of sheep. I would imagine that any would-be jihaddi hijackers are also aware that travelers are already on a hair-trigger. Examine the incidents since 9/11: An insane/drunk man rushes to the cockpit door and the passengers promptly flatten him. A person with a mental disorder or someone who's intoxicated won't be deterred by a pre-flight announcement. What the US Gov't and FAA SHOULD have done after 9/11 is to add the following line to the pre-recorded message played on all commercial flights prior to take-off: "You may be called upon by a member of the crew or fellow passengers to assist them in disarming or detaining anyone threatening the safety of this aircraft." That single innocuous statement alone is worth more than a thousand air-marshalls. It turns every flight into a plane full of air marshalls. No self-respecting hijacker, upon hearing such a message on test-flight after test-flight, would ever consider a hi-jacking al-la 9/11 again. The jihadis plan and rehearse their attacks. Based on their history, if they plan to hijack another airliner they already know the passengers will put up a fight. If there is a genuine hijacking, do you really think an FA with a knife to her throat is going to have the presence of mind to ask the passengers to detain her captor? Do you honestly believe a jihaddi hijacker will be scared by your announcement? I don't. |
#26
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Bob Chipeska wrote:
... if they plan to hijack another airliner they already know the passengers will put up a fight. Give it a few years. Memories will fade. When faced with a similar situation, there is no garantee that a plane full of pax WILL combat a handfull of terrorists. They will be confused. They will look around. They will wonder what to do. They will think - "if I act, it may be the wrong thing to do". There will be self doubt. All this while the terrorists are screaming at them to be quite and not talk to each other. All this, because the collective understanding (that hijackers are to be disabled at all costs) will not exist. How many people know, like zombies, that the tray table and seat-back must be upright and locked? That their **** must be stowed prior to landing? How many people WILL know, in the future, what to do in a 9-11 situation? How many people know RIGHT NOW? Who has told them - officially? The cowards in the White-house and FAA? The airlines? The media? Cowards all of them. Now, we'll give the sheep a handfull of skymarshalls. We can't possibly enact a policy that would HELP THEM HELP THEMSELVES in the case of the next 9-11. If there is a genuine hijacking, do you really think an FA with a knife to her throat is going to have the presence of mind to ask the passengers to detain her captor? Do you really think that such a request needs to be made? Do you WANT IT so that such a request MUST be made to propel the passengers into action? What is the difference between a "genuine hijacking" and a "jihaddi hijacking" in this day and age anyways? What- do you want the pax to be sheep during a "genuine hijacking" ??? Do you want there to be 2 policies for how pax are supposed to react to a hijacking (or any such violence within the cabin) ? Do you honestly believe a jihaddi hijacker will be scared by your announcement? I don't. The intent would not be to scare them. The intent would be to make them realize that pax in general, on each and every flight, have the collective understanding that anyone who endangers the plane or crew will be immediately tackled. Not just 1 week after 9/11, or 1 month, or 1 year - but for all times. |
#27
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Bob Chipeska wrote:
... if they plan to hijack another airliner they already know the passengers will put up a fight. Give it a few years. Memories will fade. When faced with a similar situation, there is no garantee that a plane full of pax WILL combat a handfull of terrorists. They will be confused. They will look around. They will wonder what to do. They will think - "if I act, it may be the wrong thing to do". There will be self doubt. All this while the terrorists are screaming at them to be quite and not talk to each other. All this, because the collective understanding (that hijackers are to be disabled at all costs) will not exist. How many people know, like zombies, that the tray table and seat-back must be upright and locked? That their **** must be stowed prior to landing? How many people WILL know, in the future, what to do in a 9-11 situation? How many people know RIGHT NOW? Who has told them - officially? The cowards in the White-house and FAA? The airlines? The media? Cowards all of them. Now, we'll give the sheep a handfull of skymarshalls. We can't possibly enact a policy that would HELP THEM HELP THEMSELVES in the case of the next 9-11. If there is a genuine hijacking, do you really think an FA with a knife to her throat is going to have the presence of mind to ask the passengers to detain her captor? Do you really think that such a request needs to be made? Do you WANT IT so that such a request MUST be made to propel the passengers into action? What is the difference between a "genuine hijacking" and a "jihaddi hijacking" in this day and age anyways? What- do you want the pax to be sheep during a "genuine hijacking" ??? Do you want there to be 2 policies for how pax are supposed to react to a hijacking (or any such violence within the cabin) ? Do you honestly believe a jihaddi hijacker will be scared by your announcement? I don't. The intent would not be to scare them. The intent would be to make them realize that pax in general, on each and every flight, have the collective understanding that anyone who endangers the plane or crew will be immediately tackled. Not just 1 week after 9/11, or 1 month, or 1 year - but for all times. |
#28
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"Bob Chipeska" wrote in message
... "R J Carpenter" wrote in message ... "JohnT" wrote in message ... Why? Travelling by air, even taking into account the fact that occasionally really nasty things happen, is 99.99 per cent safe. Very few people would make air trips if flying were that unsafe. There would be a crash about once a day in the USA. Guesstimate that each of the top 25 airports in the USA have an average of 300 departures per day (some have much more). That makes vaguely 7500 departures per day, just counting the major airports. JohnT threw out the number of one problem per ten thousand flights. That would mean roughly one airliner crash per day in the USA. There have been about 1000 days since "9/11". IIRC, it has been a number of years since a mainline US airliner crash. I believe the last one was the Airbus that went down over Brooklyn. Those of us with at least 3-4 decades under our belts can remember a time when commercial airliners went down a couple times every year, and that was in countries with state-of-the-art aircraft and control systems. Example: Windshear. When was the last time you heard of an airliner being brought down by windshear? Last incident I can recall in the US was at DFW in the mid-1980s. Since then airports have installed detection equipment. I still remember the newsmedia talking about "Windshear" like it was the boogie man way up until the mid 90's. -- "I don't understand how poor people think." -- George W. Bush, New York Times, 2003-08-26 Goliath & Wildwing's Storage Room http://anatidae.homestead.com/ |
#29
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"Bob Chipeska" wrote in message
... "R J Carpenter" wrote in message ... "JohnT" wrote in message ... Why? Travelling by air, even taking into account the fact that occasionally really nasty things happen, is 99.99 per cent safe. Very few people would make air trips if flying were that unsafe. There would be a crash about once a day in the USA. Guesstimate that each of the top 25 airports in the USA have an average of 300 departures per day (some have much more). That makes vaguely 7500 departures per day, just counting the major airports. JohnT threw out the number of one problem per ten thousand flights. That would mean roughly one airliner crash per day in the USA. There have been about 1000 days since "9/11". IIRC, it has been a number of years since a mainline US airliner crash. I believe the last one was the Airbus that went down over Brooklyn. Those of us with at least 3-4 decades under our belts can remember a time when commercial airliners went down a couple times every year, and that was in countries with state-of-the-art aircraft and control systems. Example: Windshear. When was the last time you heard of an airliner being brought down by windshear? Last incident I can recall in the US was at DFW in the mid-1980s. Since then airports have installed detection equipment. I still remember the newsmedia talking about "Windshear" like it was the boogie man way up until the mid 90's. -- "I don't understand how poor people think." -- George W. Bush, New York Times, 2003-08-26 Goliath & Wildwing's Storage Room http://anatidae.homestead.com/ |
#30
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"Bob Chipeska" wrote in message
... "R J Carpenter" wrote in message ... "JohnT" wrote in message ... Why? Travelling by air, even taking into account the fact that occasionally really nasty things happen, is 99.99 per cent safe. Very few people would make air trips if flying were that unsafe. There would be a crash about once a day in the USA. Guesstimate that each of the top 25 airports in the USA have an average of 300 departures per day (some have much more). That makes vaguely 7500 departures per day, just counting the major airports. JohnT threw out the number of one problem per ten thousand flights. That would mean roughly one airliner crash per day in the USA. There have been about 1000 days since "9/11". IIRC, it has been a number of years since a mainline US airliner crash. I believe the last one was the Airbus that went down over Brooklyn. Those of us with at least 3-4 decades under our belts can remember a time when commercial airliners went down a couple times every year, and that was in countries with state-of-the-art aircraft and control systems. Example: Windshear. When was the last time you heard of an airliner being brought down by windshear? Last incident I can recall in the US was at DFW in the mid-1980s. Since then airports have installed detection equipment. I still remember the newsmedia talking about "Windshear" like it was the boogie man way up until the mid 90's. -- "I don't understand how poor people think." -- George W. Bush, New York Times, 2003-08-26 Goliath & Wildwing's Storage Room http://anatidae.homestead.com/ |
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