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#11
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:38:58 +0200, Martin
wrote: On 03 Apr 2007 13:36:56 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote: (Martin) wrote in m: On 3 Apr 2007 05:20:08 -0700, "ocelot" wrote: Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes Is "ten times less" the same as "one tenth"? Taking into account the CO2 generated during manufacture of the rails, boring the tunnels and other mundane things that are for some reason are excluded? Presumably then, you've made the same accounting for the manufacture of the aircraft, the construction and maintenance of the airports and the extraction, distillation and transport of the fuel "and other mundane things that are for some reason [are] excluded"? er I'm not the one making silly claims for Eurostar. But you hhave made the claims addressed above, albeit by indirection. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#12
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
Following up to Martin :
On 3 Apr 2007 05:20:08 -0700, "ocelot" wrote: Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes Taking into account the CO2 generated during manufacture of the rails, boring the tunnels and other mundane things that are for some reason are excluded? The amount of CO2 generated flying the same route is insignificant. Adding in the CO2 produced by building the runways, car-parks at the airports .... -- Tim C. |
#13
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:04:17 +0200, Martin
wrote: On 3 Apr 2007 06:52:27 -0700, "ocelot" wrote: Martin is just being argumentative......again I was wondering why you cut and paste these articles to rte. It certainly seems appropriate to travel in Europe. Do you believe all this crap? First you need to demonstrate it really is crap instead of doing all that arm waving. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#14
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black"
wrote: "Iceman" wrote in message I'm all in favour of travelling by train, or even bus. However I have to travel from the North of England to India once or twice a year. Over that distance it is unrealistic to travel any other way besides plane. But trains should replace most short-distance flights. There should hardly be any domestic flights anywhere in Western Europe. A lot of the concern about aviation CO2 emissions is from the very rapid growth in short-distance flights worldwide. Long-distance flights are far more polluting but are still a tiny percentage of all flights. Security at air-ports are so bad these days and so I've considered all the other possible options: Travelling by bus, except you can't travel to India by bus any more because the USA has turned a reasonable proportion of the intervening terrain into a war zone. Believe it or not, that was a popular road trip in the 1970's. From Western Europe to Istanbul, and then to Kathmandu passing through Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. Heathrow is a hell hole run by morons with a security fixation, KLM loses your luggage so cutting Heathrow out and going via Holland from a UK provincial air-port is a non starter as well. Suggestions anyone? Get a flight from Manchester that stops in an efficient, medium-size European airport - can you fly SAS through Copenhagen, or Austrian through Vienna? Lufthansa flies to a couple Indian airports, just connect through Munich or Dusseldorf instead of Frankfurt if you can help it. |
#15
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
"Iceman" wrote in message ups.com... On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black" wrote: Travelling by bus, except you can't travel to India by bus any more because the USA has turned a reasonable proportion of the intervening terrain into a war zone. Believe it or not, that was a popular road trip in the 1970's. Which is why I typed 'except you can't travel to India by bus any more'. Heathrow is a hell hole run by morons with a security fixation, KLM loses your luggage so cutting Heathrow out and going via Holland from a UK provincial air-port is a non starter as well. Suggestions anyone? Get a flight from Manchester that stops in an efficient, medium-size European airport - can you fly SAS through Copenhagen, or Austrian through Vienna? Lufthansa flies to a couple Indian airports, just connect through Munich or Dusseldorf instead of Frankfurt if you can help it. My sister flew there with Lufthansa from Birmingham. I'll think about it and if I can get a cheap enough flight I'll try it. Mind you, she said it was awful, with only one meal provided, and they didn't turn the lights out for people to sleep. -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#16
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote: On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black" wrote: "Iceman" wrote in message I'm all in favour of travelling by train, or even bus. However I have to travel from the North of England to India once or twice a year. Over that distance it is unrealistic to travel any other way besides plane. But trains should replace most short-distance flights. There should hardly be any domestic flights anywhere in Western Europe. I wonder if the rails have the capacity to carry all the extra traffic now carried by short-haul airlines? What do you think should be the deciding distance? What is the definition of short-haul? I've been on the ICE from Munich to Berlin and at six or seven hours we began to think perhaps we should have flown after all. We did fly from Helsinki to Bonn. What would you suggest as the train route to have taken? (Of course, if Estonia would develop passenger service to the south we'd be willing to try that.) -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#17
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
"Hatunen" wrote in message ... On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman" wrote: On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black" wrote: "Iceman" wrote in message I'm all in favour of travelling by train, or even bus. However I have to travel from the North of England to India once or twice a year. Over that distance it is unrealistic to travel any other way besides plane. But trains should replace most short-distance flights. There should hardly be any domestic flights anywhere in Western Europe. I wonder if the rails have the capacity to carry all the extra traffic now carried by short-haul airlines? Price is an issue as well. Travelling on the train across borders in Europe is an expensive way to travel compared to low cost air travel. I can fly to Prague for £40, I can't get to a UK point of exit for France on a train for that ... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#18
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
"Iceman" kirjoitti legroups.com... Travelling by bus, except you can't travel to India by bus any more because the USA has turned a reasonable proportion of the intervening terrain into a war zone. Believe it or not, that was a popular road trip in the 1970's. From Western Europe to Istanbul, and then to Kathmandu passing through Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. I guess it is rather popular even today. Naturally only foolhardy travellers try it anywhere in Afghanistan. There aren't too many entry points on ground for Western travellers between Pakistan and India I assume. Perhaps we should reach any destination on foot. As far as carbondioxide is concerned, exhalation naturally emits it. Which way conserves nature better: walking or running. Man also farts around 300 milliliters of gas per day. In order to maintain decent digestion we must leak a bit. This should be an excellent opportunity for tax collection: more energy flows through man's system, more he pollutes and pays for the "keep the environment tidy" tax. |
#19
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
On Apr 3, 10:21 am, Hatunen wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman" wrote: On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black" wrote: "Iceman" wrote in message I'm all in favour of travelling by train, or even bus. However I have to travel from the North of England to India once or twice a year. Over that distance it is unrealistic to travel any other way besides plane. But trains should replace most short-distance flights. There should hardly be any domestic flights anywhere in Western Europe. I wonder if the rails have the capacity to carry all the extra traffic now carried by short-haul airlines? Well, if there was more investment in rails there would be. What do you think should be the deciding distance? What is the definition of short-haul? I've been on the ICE from Munich to Berlin and at six or seven hours we began to think perhaps we should have flown after all. Isn't that going to be a high-speed route very soon? If there is a 3-4 hour train trip, then there shouldn't need to be a flight. We did fly from Helsinki to Bonn. What would you suggest as the train route to have taken? (Of course, if Estonia would develop passenger service to the south we'd be willing to try that.) That's why I said "domestic" flights. Obviously Lisbon to Athens is not a doable rail journey for most people. |
#20
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Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes
On Apr 3, 10:26 am, "William Black"
wrote: "Hatunen" wrote in message ... On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman" wrote: On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black" wrote: "Iceman" wrote in message I'm all in favour of travelling by train, or even bus. However I have to travel from the North of England to India once or twice a year. Over that distance it is unrealistic to travel any other way besides plane. But trains should replace most short-distance flights. There should hardly be any domestic flights anywhere in Western Europe. I wonder if the rails have the capacity to carry all the extra traffic now carried by short-haul airlines? Price is an issue as well. Travelling on the train across borders in Europe is an expensive way to travel compared to low cost air travel. I can fly to Prague for £40, I can't get to a UK point of exit for France on a train for that ... Many aspects of air travel are heavily subsidized by governments, while rail systems are often underfunded and neglected. The plane really shouldn't be that cheap, nor the train that expensive. |
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