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Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 11th, 2007, 12:12 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
Gregory Morrow[_32_]
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Posts: 101
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line


http://www.praguepost.com/articles/2...-expansion.php

City plans metro expansion

Network extension includes a new line and airport link

By Kimberly Ashton
Staff Writer, The Prague Post
September 5th, 2007

"Prague officials want to expand the A line of the metro to Ruzyne Airport
in a 40 billion Kc ($2 billion) project that could be paid for, in part, by
European Union funds.
Officials plan to spend 15 billion Kc in city money to start building the A
line extension in 2009 to Petriny, according to Eva Dydová, a spokeswoman at
the Prague Transport Agency.

It could take until 2018 to complete the 14-kilometer (8.7-mile) line all
the way to Ruzyne Airport, said Radovan Steiner, city councilor for
transport.
Between Dejvická and Letiste Praha-Ruzyne, the line will stop at Cervený
Vrch, Veleslavín, Petriny, Motol, Bílá Hora, Dedina and Dlouhá Míle.

"The priority is building the A line to Dlouhá Míle terminal, which is of
key importance for car and bus transport," Steiner said in a council press
release. "Another benefit is the improvement of the traffic situation in
Prague 6, mainly on Evropská street and in the surroundings of Vítezné
námestí, it will become calmer."

Expanding the A line is the city's top priority, according to the city
council.


Including more of Prague 4

But officials are also discussing building a completely new, fourth metro
line."Building both stretches of the metro is very important for the city,"
Steiner says.

Construction of the D line will begin in 2010, according to Dydová.

The first stretch will run about 5 kilometers from Pankrác through
Olbrachtova, Nádrazí Krc, and Zálesí to Nové Dvory and will cost 18.5
billion Kc.
The next stage will extend the line from Nové dvory through Libus to the
terminus at Písnice.
The last phase will take the line from Pankrác to Hlavní nádrazí via Námestí
míru, where it will provide a connection to the A line and Námestí bratrí
Synku.
The entire 11-kilometer line is expected to cost 40 billion Kc, as well,
Steiner said.

The city wants to create a public-private partnership to pay for the line,
Dydová said. With such a system, a private investor would pay to build the
new line then take in the revenues until it's paid off. After that, the city
would own the line.

Under the public-private aspect, the new line would still be covered by the
city's public transportation system, including the metro pass.


A 'classic modern' approach

Prague officials are currently looking at other European metro systems to
see if a traditional subway, which runs deep underground, would be a better
option for the new line than a "light metro," which runs closer to the
surface and can navigate tighter turns.

"According to the preliminary results, we think the best thing would be a
classic modern underground that combines the features of the classic
underground and light underground," Dydová said.

But the city has taken one thing from the analysis so far: "We plan to run
the trains without conductors," she said.

While the city gears up to expand the A line and build the D line, it will
continue work on the C line, where construction began in 2004 to extend the
line from Ládví to Letnany, at a cost of 15.5 billion Kc.

/








  #2  
Old September 18th, 2007, 10:55 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
Jack Campin - bogus address
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Posts: 779
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line

"Prague officials want to expand the A line of the metro to Ruzyne
Airport in a 40 billion Kc ($2 billion) project that could be paid
for, in part, by European Union funds.


What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport. And there are, what, ten buses an hour? How
the hell does that justify several kilometres of hole in the ground?

I was on that bus this morning. It works fine, there is rarely any
congestion on the route. The metro would only be a marginal improvement.
More spacious buses that were easier to board would help - bendies with
more widely spaced seats, maybe. And either on-street ticket machines
that gave change and took Euros. Or just make the service free - the
subsidy required would cost far less than building the proposed line.

There is also an existing surface tram line that goes more than halfway.
That could be extended for a fraction of the cost of a metro line.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
  #3  
Old September 18th, 2007, 11:40 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
Paul Dwerryhouse
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Posts: 80
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line

Jack Campin - bogus address writes:

What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport.


That'll be because they're buses. A completely inferior mode of transport.

--
http://lastcarriage.com/ - Independent Travel
  #4  
Old September 19th, 2007, 12:09 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
David Horne, _the_ chancellor[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,049
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:

"Prague officials want to expand the A line of the metro to Ruzyne
Airport in a 40 billion Kc ($2 billion) project that could be paid
for, in part, by European Union funds.


What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport. And there are, what, ten buses an hour? How
the hell does that justify several kilometres of hole in the ground?


Growth? A lot of ****-ups in public transport are based on the
miscalculation of people wanting to use a route in increasing numbers.
As a Brit, I'm surprised that didn't occur to you.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"
  #5  
Old September 19th, 2007, 11:51 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Turan Fettahoglu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line

Prague does have traffic congestions. Last year I had to take a taxi to the
airport and was lucky to catch my plane. The taxi fare is 850 crowns from
downtown (about 25 Euro).

An underground line would make it much faster, easier and cheaper, except
for the taxi drivers. Some of the Prague taxi drivers are infamous for their
rip-off methods.

But if you want a real adventure, take a train from Prague to Germany. You
probably have to change train several times. Do not fail to photograph the
old rattletrap trains.



  #6  
Old September 19th, 2007, 06:40 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
Jack Campin - bogus address
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 779
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line

"Prague officials want to expand the A line of the metro to Ruzyne
Airport in a 40 billion Kc ($2 billion) project that could be paid
for, in part, by European Union funds.

What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport. And there are, what, ten buses an hour? How
the hell does that justify several kilometres of hole in the ground?

Growth? A lot of ****-ups in public transport are based on the
miscalculation of people wanting to use a route in increasing
numbers.


Prague is similar in size to Edinburgh and its airport is similarly
located. For Edinburgh there's a strong argument for a much better
transport link out to the airport - so strong that my guess is the
only reason it hasn't happened is that the taxi firms and their
organized-crime owners have bent officials for years to stop it. But
the route to Edinburgh airport goes through areas of high-density
housing and enormous business parks, and the airport is handy for
the Forth Bridges and the motorway to Glasgow. Prague doesn't have
anything like that; low-density middle-income housing, a few small
commercial sites, then a small patch of green fields. Nothing *but*
the airport to motivate the project. Prague is expanding, but not
in that direction and it isn't likely to.

Maybe the proposal was to take the Metro A trains up to the surface
a bit west of Dejvicka rather than dig a hole (there's lots of spare
road width to use), but even so they're far too big for the demand.
They could limit the frequency out beyond the present end of the line,
but for an air travel link you want a frequent service, not a high-
volume one with long intervals.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
  #7  
Old September 19th, 2007, 10:00 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Gregory Morrow[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line



--

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:

"Prague officials want to expand the A line of the metro to Ruzyne
Airport in a 40 billion Kc ($2 billion) project that could be paid
for, in part, by European Union funds.
What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport. And there are, what, ten buses an hour? How
the hell does that justify several kilometres of hole in the ground?

Growth? A lot of ****-ups in public transport are based on the
miscalculation of people wanting to use a route in increasing
numbers.


Prague is similar in size to Edinburgh and its airport is similarly
located. For Edinburgh there's a strong argument for a much better
transport link out to the airport - so strong that my guess is the
only reason it hasn't happened is that the taxi firms and their
organized-crime owners have bent officials for years to stop it. But
the route to Edinburgh airport goes through areas of high-density
housing and enormous business parks, and the airport is handy for
the Forth Bridges and the motorway to Glasgow. Prague doesn't have
anything like that; low-density middle-income housing, a few small
commercial sites, then a small patch of green fields. Nothing *but*
the airport to motivate the project. Prague is expanding, but not
in that direction and it isn't likely to.



Airport traffic is growing fast, and the PRG airport authority wants to
build a new runway to handle the increase in traffic; there is even talk of
a new facility for the exclusive use of low - fare carriers (this would
actually utilise an old aerodrome). Some random articles from Google:

http://www.praguepost.com/articles/2...-expansion.php

http://www.radio.cz/en/article/37018



Maybe the proposal was to take the Metro A trains up to the surface
a bit west of Dejvicka rather than dig a hole (there's lots of spare
road width to use), but even so they're far too big for the demand.
They could limit the frequency out beyond the present end of the line,
but for an air travel link you want a frequent service, not a high-
volume one with long intervals.



It's considered very desirable for an airport to have "train to the plane"
service, it's seen as being a very "user - friendly" feature...whether it's
"necessary" is perhaps a matter of opinion. ;-)


More FYI:

http://www.praguepost.com/articles/2...port-metro.php

"City moves closer to airport metro

But disagreement over who's to foot the bill likely to cause delays

By Brandon Swanson
Staff Writer, The Prague Post
February 1st, 2006

Under the proposal, travelers headed to Ruzyne Airport would no longer have
to disembark the metro at Dejvická and take a bus.

Recent zoning changes in Prague 6 appear to bolster the chances for a
long-awaited extension of the metro to Prague Ruzyne Airport that would
include eight new stops west from Dejvická.

But financial squabbling between city and state departments over who is
going to foot the bill for the 14 kilometer (8.7 mile) extension seems
likely to keep the project years away from coming to fruition.

Talks about building the rail connection began nearly a decade ago alongside
a separate discussion to open a new airport terminal. While the new terminal
opened Jan. 18 and created the space for millions of additional travelers,
the rail project has languished in discussion and disagreement.

The Prague City Council approved the zoning changes Jan. 26.

Currently, three bus lines from the airport to Dejvická, Nové Butovice and
Zlicín serve as the only public transportation between the airport and the
city.

Officials are aware that there are many hurdles to the rail link.

"This first step allows us to begin with the territory proceedings, and
consequently the construction proceedings, which should then lead to the
construction permit issuance," said City Councilor Radovan Steiner. "These
processes could take two to three years."


Passing the funding buck

Since its inception, the estimated cost of the metro extension has
ballooned. City officials say the project could now cost as much as 38
billion Kc ($1.7 billion) - nearly double its original estimate - and there
is debate over who will pay for the project.

Mayor Pavel Bém said he was confident that the city would find the funds to
get the project going.

"I trust we shall find support in the state budget and we'll succeed in
obtaining money from European funds," he said.

The city is likely to get help from the European Investment Bank (EIB),
which has lent it more than $255 million to extend metro line C over the
years.

But Transportation Ministry spokeswoman Marcela Zizková said that if the
city wants to go ahead with the project it would not get any extra help from
the state budget.

"Everything concerning the metro is in the city's command," she said. The
ministry gives the city 412 million Kc annually, and "it is up to the city
what they do with the money."

Annual funding from the Transportation Ministry amounts to 1 percent of the
total estimated cost of the metro extension.

Steiner said that since the state owns the airport, it is obligatory for the
state to finance the project.

The state currently pays for 10 percent of the cost of Prague's public
transportation, the lowest of any European Union capital city. In Rome, the
state covers 70 percent of public transportation costs; in Amsterdam, the
state covers 90 percent.

"Prague expects a clear commitment of the state on financing this project,"
Steiner said. "Without such a commitment, it is not currently possible to
determine responsibly the exact date when the connection starts to operate."

The Transportation Ministry could render the disagreement moot, he said, if
it were to transfer ownership of the airport to regional authorities as it
has in Brno, Ostrava and Karlovy Vary.

Steiner said that general public transit fares would not increase regardless
of whether or not the state offers to help fund the project, but he added
that he could envision a special tariff on passengers going to and from the
airport.


Need to extend

The one thing that city and state officials agree on is that a direct
connection between the airport and city center is necessary.

Deputy Mayor Jan Bürgermeister said officials need to address the airport
transportation problem and even Zizková called the plan "essential."

With the new terminal, the airport increased its potential annual capacity
from 6 million to 11 million travelers, and that number will continue to
rise. Airport officials are already planning to boost annual capacity to 20
million people by the end of the decade.

"We open new airport terminals and expect more tourists to visit Prague, but
we do not provide them with adequate transportation to the city,"
Bürgermeister said. "Many people travel daily from Kladno to work in Prague.
Every day the route is used to maximum capacity."

The project would help alleviate traffic on Evropská street, the main
thoroughfare to the airport, he said.

Many Prague 6 residents don't have direct access to the metro and rely on
trams and buses. Nine out of 10 residents approve of the project, according
to a study published by Factum Invenio in 2005.

The district is the most heavily populated in Prague, with nearly 200,000
residents.

The Transportation Ministry scrapped plans to spend 25 billion Kc
modernizing the Bustehradská rail line between Kladno and Prague that would
have had an airport stop, after it was rejected by Prague 6 residents last
year.

- Petr Kaspar and Sylvie Dejmková contributed to this report.

-----------------

The slow track:

Plans to extend the metro to Ruzyne Airport have encountered numerous
hurdles:

1997 Transportation Ministry and Prague City Council make rail connection
between the airport and city center a priority

1998 Ministry insists on extension and reconstruction of Bustehradská
railway to allow for high-speed rail service from the airport to Masarykovo
Nádrazí downtown

January 2005 Prague 6 rejects high-speed rail service

May 2005 Prague districts 5, 6, 13 and 17 make a deal with city on definite
concept of metro extension

November 2005 According to a survey, nine out of 10 Prague 6 residents
support the extension "


/








  #8  
Old September 19th, 2007, 11:02 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
David Horne, _the_ chancellor[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,049
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:

"Prague officials want to expand the A line of the metro to Ruzyne
Airport in a 40 billion Kc ($2 billion) project that could be paid
for, in part, by European Union funds.
What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport. And there are, what, ten buses an hour? How
the hell does that justify several kilometres of hole in the ground?

Growth? A lot of ****-ups in public transport are based on the
miscalculation of people wanting to use a route in increasing
numbers.


Prague is similar in size to Edinburgh and its airport is similarly
located. For Edinburgh there's a strong argument for a much better
transport link out to the airport - so strong that my guess is the
only reason it hasn't happened is that the taxi firms and their
organized-crime owners have bent officials for years to stop it. But
the route to Edinburgh airport goes through areas of high-density
housing and enormous business parks, and the airport is handy for
the Forth Bridges and the motorway to Glasgow.


And of course, a major rail line passes within feet of the edge of the
runway, built before the airport! I've never understood why they didn't
have a station there, and a shuttle bus to the terminal.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"
  #9  
Old September 20th, 2007, 06:09 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
Jack May
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 71
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line


"Paul Dwerryhouse" wrote in message
...
Jack Campin - bogus address writes:

What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport.


That'll be because they're buses. A completely inferior mode of transport.


You mean in comparison to heavy rail like BART to the San Francisco airport
which attracts a very small number of riders at an incredibly high cost.


  #10  
Old September 20th, 2007, 09:01 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,misc.transport.urban-transit
David Horne, _the_ chancellor[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,049
Default Prague Metro Plans Extension To Airport + New Line

Paul Dwerryhouse wrote:

Jack Campin - bogus address writes:

What a colossal waste of money. Just about nobody uses the existing
bus services to get to anywhere in between the present terminus of
Line A and the airport.


That'll be because they're buses. A completely inferior mode of transport.


Not at all. If they're frequent and fast enough, people will take them.
The service from Manchester city centre to Liverpool airport (non-stop,
with 2 pick ups in town) is a good example. Very popular, and frequent
service- in fact the Italian company terravision entered the market in
competition with arriva, and the price has gone down, and the service
frequency has gone up, as has the hours of operation, meaning that
people use it for the very early and late flights which are a feature of
many low-cost routes. The 4am service from Manchester is always packed,
for example.

By contrast, I wouldn't dream of taking the bus to Manchester airport,
because it will stop in lots of places and take a lot longer than the
15-20 minutes the frequent trains from city centre stations will take...

I did it once, when there were rail engineering works going on. Luckily
it was was early on a Sunday morning, so either anyone got on or off,
but it was still tedious for the stops it did make, as well as the
slighly ciruitous route.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"
 




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