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VISA rules when crossing CIS borders



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 11th, 2005, 09:31 AM
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Default VISA rules when crossing CIS borders

This Easter I am planning to fly to Vilnius, then take the train from
Vilnius to Minsk and then train from Minsk to St Petersburg. I am a
Norwegian Citizen and I know I will not need a visa for Litheunia.

My questions a

-If I have got it right - As long as my passport and visa is ok, I will
not need a returnticket on entry?

-Can my Russian and Bellarussian visas have overlapping periods of
validity?

-Do I have to decide upon what bordercrossings to use when I issue my
visas? I know that I have to check if the bordercrossing in question
can be used by foreigners / non-CIS citizens.

Thank you in advance,

Jan

  #3  
Old February 20th, 2005, 03:44 PM
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Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message

roups.com...
This Easter I am planning to fly to Vilnius, then take the train

from
Vilnius to Minsk and then train from Minsk to St Petersburg. I am a
Norwegian Citizen and I know I will not need a visa for Litheunia.

My questions a

-If I have got it right - As long as my passport and visa is ok, I

will
not need a returnticket on entry?


I have never been checked for a return ticket and I have never heard
of any requirement of a return ticket.


The Russian consulte in Hague confirs that a return ticket is
necessary. They are much more strict on travel insurance than they used
to be theese days though. My advice is not to apply for a visa without
bringing a valid travel insurance.

-Can my Russian and Bellarussian visas have overlapping periods of
validity?


I can't see why not.


In democratorships there is a lot of things that one can not see why
not Bjorn. As good as I understood the the Russian consulate in Hague
though, it is no problem with overlapping periods.

-Do I have to decide upon what bordercrossings to use when I issue

my
visas?


I have never specified the border crossing in my visa application.
They don't ask about it in the form.


The Russian consulate in Hague, has also cofirmed to me that I am free
to use any bordercrossing as long it is open for foregners / non-CIS
citizens.

If one travel on a tourist visa though, one should keep in mind that
normally all cities that one visits (and hava a visa office) should be
included in your visa. I would exit Russia from somewhere it is
reasonable that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town
included in your visa.

Jan

  #4  
Old February 28th, 2005, 07:37 AM
Bjorn Olsson
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Posts: n/a
Default

wrote in message oups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...
This Easter I am planning to fly to Vilnius, then take the train

from
Vilnius to Minsk and then train from Minsk to St Petersburg. I am a
Norwegian Citizen and I know I will not need a visa for Litheunia.

My questions a

-If I have got it right - As long as my passport and visa is ok, I

will
not need a returnticket on entry?


I have never been checked for a return ticket and I have never heard
of any requirement of a return ticket.


The Russian consulte in Hague confirs that a return ticket is
necessary.


Well, I confirm that I have entered 15 times without being asked for
my return ticket. My guess is that they have the right to ask to see
your return ticket, but that they exercise this right only if they
find you suspicious, for some reason.

They are much more strict on travel insurance than they used
to be theese days though.


Really? My last visa application was in December. As usual, I just
entered "yes" where the form asked if I had valid insurance and then
ignored the instruction to "attach insurance policy for evaluation".
And, as usual, they paid no attention to this and asked no questions.

My advice is not to apply for a visa without
bringing a valid travel insurance.


Insurance is a good thing.

-Can my Russian and Bellarussian visas have overlapping periods of
validity?


I can't see why not.


In democratorships there is a lot of things that one can not see why
not Bjorn.


Sure. It's the same everywhere.

As good as I understood the the Russian consulate in Hague
though, it is no problem with overlapping periods.


Don't ask them too many questions like that, please. You might give
them ideas for new restrictions that they hadn't thought about..

-Do I have to decide upon what bordercrossings to use when I issue

my
visas?


I have never specified the border crossing in my visa application.
They don't ask about it in the form.


The Russian consulate in Hague, has also cofirmed to me that I am free
to use any bordercrossing as long it is open for foregners / non-CIS
citizens.

If one travel on a tourist visa though, one should keep in mind that
normally all cities that one visits (and hava a visa office) should be
included in your visa. I would exit Russia from somewhere it is
reasonable that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town
included in your visa.


I have several times written only "Perm" in my visa application, but
then made my exit out of the country from SVO. That's one heck of a
day trip! Also, on occasion I have stayed one or two nights in Moscow
on the way. No problemos.

Bjorn
  #5  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 12:22 AM
?ystein
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Posts: n/a
Default

(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message
The Russian consulte in Hague confirs that a return ticket is
necessary.


Well, I confirm that I have entered 15 times without being asked for
my return ticket. My guess is that they have the right to ask to see
your return ticket, but that they exercise this right only if they
find you suspicious, for some reason.

No, the rule is that a return flight is not necesary - period. It is
as simple as that.

They are much more strict on travel insurance than they used
to be theese days though.


Really? My last visa application was in December. As usual, I just
entered "yes" where the form asked if I had valid insurance and then
ignored the instruction to "attach insurance policy for evaluation".
And, as usual, they paid no attention to this and asked no questions.

My advice is not to apply for a visa without
bringing a valid travel insurance.


Insurance is a good thing.

The Russian consulate in the Hague was very clear on that they have
become more strict on this, so I guess the best idea is not to doubt
them. Especially because as you say insurance is a good thing, taking
chanses can not improve your travel experience and it is a
understandible point that Russian authorities does not want to be
financial responsible for foreign tourists in case of an accident.

-Do I have to decide upon what bordercrossings to use when I issue

my
visas?

I have never specified the border crossing in my visa application.
They don't ask about it in the form.


The Russian consulate in Hague, has also cofirmed to me that I am free
to use any bordercrossing as long it is open for foregners / non-CIS
citizens.

If one travel on a tourist visa though, one should keep in mind that
normally all cities that one visits (and hava a visa office) should be
included in your visa. I would exit Russia from somewhere it is
reasonable that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town
included in your visa.


I have several times written only "Perm" in my visa application, but
then made my exit out of the country from SVO. That's one heck of a
day trip! Also, on occasion I have stayed one or two nights in Moscow
on the way. No problemos.


Formally the rules can not be misunderstood. Every single town where
you spend the night have to be registered on your emmigration card if
you travel to Russia on a tourist or private visa (if you have a
business visa this rule does not apply). In towns that does not have
an OVIR office though, the registration only means a stamp from your
hotel with the arrival and exit days in the town. Outside St
Petersburg and Moscow police controls of papers rarely takes place and
even if you get stopped and have your visa checked, you are likely to
get away with such smaller irregularities as long as you handle the
situation in a sensible manner.

Jan
  #6  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 10:58 AM
Bjorn Olsson
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Posts: n/a
Default

(?ystein) wrote in message . com...
(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message
The Russian consulte in Hague confirs that a return ticket is
necessary.


Well, I confirm that I have entered 15 times without being asked for
my return ticket. My guess is that they have the right to ask to see
your return ticket, but that they exercise this right only if they
find you suspicious, for some reason.

No, the rule is that a return flight is not necesary - period. It is
as simple as that.


Is or is not? Could you make up your mind?

They are much more strict on travel insurance than they used
to be theese days though.


Really? My last visa application was in December. As usual, I just
entered "yes" where the form asked if I had valid insurance and then
ignored the instruction to "attach insurance policy for evaluation".
And, as usual, they paid no attention to this and asked no questions.

My advice is not to apply for a visa without
bringing a valid travel insurance.


Insurance is a good thing.

The Russian consulate in the Hague was very clear on that they have
become more strict on this, so I guess the best idea is not to doubt
them.


The Hague and Gothenburg consulates seem to differ on this issue.

Especially because as you say insurance is a good thing, taking
chanses can not improve your travel experience and it is a
understandible point that Russian authorities does not want to be
financial responsible for foreign tourists in case of an accident.

-Do I have to decide upon what bordercrossings to use when I issue
my
visas?

I have never specified the border crossing in my visa application.
They don't ask about it in the form.

The Russian consulate in Hague, has also cofirmed to me that I am free
to use any bordercrossing as long it is open for foregners / non-CIS
citizens.

If one travel on a tourist visa though, one should keep in mind that
normally all cities that one visits (and hava a visa office) should be
included in your visa. I would exit Russia from somewhere it is
reasonable that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town
included in your visa.


I have several times written only "Perm" in my visa application, but
then made my exit out of the country from SVO. That's one heck of a
day trip! Also, on occasion I have stayed one or two nights in Moscow
on the way. No problemos.


Formally the rules can not be misunderstood.


Maybe so. I am not really interested in the rules. I am interested in
what works well in practice. If I am spending a single day in Moscow,
I don't find it reasonable to spend half of it on visiting OVIR, and I
won't do it if no-one is showing any interest in enforcing this silly
rule.

Every single town where
you spend the night have to be registered on your emmigration card if
you travel to Russia on a tourist or private visa (if you have a
business visa this rule does not apply). In towns that does not have
an OVIR office though, the registration only means a stamp from your
hotel with the arrival and exit days in the town. Outside St
Petersburg and Moscow police controls of papers rarely takes place and
even if you get stopped and have your visa checked, you are likely to
get away with such smaller irregularities as long as you handle the
situation in a sensible manner.


Somehow, this makes me remember the following passage from the book
"The xenophobe's guide to the Germans":

"Because life is ernsthaft, the Germans go by the rules. Schiller
wrote, 'obedience is the first duty', and no German has ever doubted
it. This fits with their sense of order and duty. Germans hate
breaking rules, which can make life difficult because, as a rule,
everything not expressly permitted is prohibited."

http://www.ovalbooks.com/xeno/Germans.html

I get the feeling that you haven't yet understood that Russians aren't
like that at all..

Bjorn
  #7  
Old March 4th, 2005, 04:46 PM
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Bjorn Olsson wrote:
(?ystein) wrote in message

. com...
(Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message

No, the rule is that a return flight is not necesary - period. It

is
as simple as that.


Is or is not? Could you make up your mind?


Yes, it is not neccesary


The Russian consulate in the Hague was very clear on that they have
become more strict on this, so I guess the best idea is not to

doubt
them.


The Hague and Gothenburg consulates seem to differ on this issue.


The rule that are 100% the same in Oslo, Gothenburg and the Hague says
that you should have a travel insurance - period. As you, I have not
been asked for it before last month. Even then they let me get away
with it. But formally there is no room for any doubt about that you
should have a vqlid travel insurance to be entitled to a tourist visa.
Therefore the best advice for anyone applying for a Russian visa is to
bring proof of valid travel insurance. As you say, a travelinsurance is
a good thing anyway. If you should apply at the consulate without
insurance though, you have fair odds for getting your application
accepoted anyway.


Maybe so. I am not really interested in the rules. I am interested in
what works well in practice. If I am spending a single day in Moscow,
I don't find it reasonable to spend half of it on visiting OVIR, and

I
won't do it if no-one is showing any interest in enforcing this silly
rule.


The reason why this example works fine in practice is that you don't
need to register your visa in order to stay there for one day. If you
knew the visa rules that applies for a visitor in Russia with a tourist
visa you would know that. Even if you stay there for several days, you
will not need to spend any time at thwe OVIR office, as the hotel might
do this for you. As you know this does not need to be the hotel where
you stay, but any hotel that offers visa registration. If in doubt
wheter or not you need to register your visa, "you can hardly have to
many stamps in your emigration card" is a good rule of thumb for
handeling your Russian travel documents. Everybody knows that Russian
aparatsi are obsessed by formulars, stamps and papers. You don't need
to be on business to get a business visa, live at a hotel to get your
visa registered there or be a student to get a student card. All that
the typical Russian aparatsi care about is that your papers are ok.
Whether or not you work in accordance with the spirit of the
regulations does not matter to them.

Jan

  #10  
Old March 6th, 2005, 10:16 PM
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Default


Bjorn Olsson wrote:
wrote in message

roups.com...
Bjorn Olsson wrote:

Maybe so. I am not really interested in the rules. I am

interested in
what works well in practice. If I am spending a single day in

Moscow,
I don't find it reasonable to spend half of it on visiting OVIR,

and
I
won't do it if no-one is showing any interest in enforcing this

silly
rule.


The reason why this example works fine in practice is that you

don't
need to register your visa in order to stay there for one day.


Yes. So why do you say that you "would exit Russia from somewhere it
is
reasonable that you can reach in a day trip from the closest town
included in your visa"?


The best way to answer that I can come up with for the moment is to
give you two exsamles.

Let's say you have a 2 weeks visa registered in St Petersburg and
decide to see Moscow. If you have your papers controlled by the police
the first day, you can say that you are there for the day and go back
in the evening. If you are spoending the night there and stay for
another day, I assume you could tell the same story. I say "I assume"
bacuase, as you probably know, you have to show your passport and visa
in order to buy trainticket. I don't think they can/normally will check
what train you arrived by (as you probalby know Russian traintickets
are issued for one spesific train), but I honestly don't know. Anyway,
I think it is sensible to assume that this will work fine. On the other
hand, I is fairly convenient to make a hotel register your
emmigrationcard and get rid of any potential problem.

Let's they say, that you have your visa registered for 2 weeks in St
Petersburg, then go for a 3 days trip to Arkhangelsk (where you
register you visa for the 3 days in question) and then spend a day in
Moscow, before you go back to St Petersburg. If your papers are checked
in Moscow, your emigrationcard will not be registered there, but you
can say that you only are there for the day. As you are registered in
Archangelsk to the day before or the same day, that is ok. If not,
things can get more tricky. When I was in a similar situation and was
stopped by the police on a Moscow trainstation the summer of 2004, I
told them that I spent the day in Moscow as I waited for my train for
St Petersburg. Then they wanted to see my trainticket from the city my
emmigrationcard was registerd until the day before and my trainticket
from Moscow to St Petersburg the same evening. As I showed them that,
everything was ok.

I hope this scenarios makes things clearer. I also hopes they visualize
the thumb rule of traveling in Russia: You can hardly have to many
stamps in your Emigration card and too much documentation of the route
you have travelled.

Even if you stay there for several days, you
will not need to spend any time at thwe OVIR office, as the hotel

might
do this for you.


You are incorrectly assuming that I am staying at a hotel.


Not neccesarily. You don't have to stay in a hotel to get it registered
for a sensible fee. Even if you have to check a couple of hotels before
you get a sensigle deal, it is much more convenient than to go to the
OVIR office.

Everybody knows that Russian
aparatsi are obsessed by formulars, stamps and papers.


IME they usually handle all papers with a yawn and a quick glance. To
require papers is not the same as being obsessed with them.


As far as I can see, I have illustrated pretty good what kind of issues
one must expect when traveling from town to town on your own in Russia,
instead of staying on one spot and/or travel organized. I agree that a
quick glace will do, most of the time. If you don't have your
documantation ready at all times though, things can get more tricky.

Whether or not this bueraucratic and complex system of papers and
registrations can be described as an obsession a leave entierly up to
you.

Best regards,

Jan

 




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