Just Got Back from Malta

"Many years ago Tunisia, or rather what now approximates to Tunisia,
was
called Carthage. Despite the fairy story that it was founded by Dido
and
Aeneas shortly after the Trojan war, it started as a trading outpost of
the
Phoenicians and the language it's people spoke was Punic. (Latin
Poenicus,
Punicus, from Poenus, a Carthaginian, from Greek Phoinix, Phoenician).
Spain, or the bottom half of it, was also a Phoenician colony having
been
conquered by Hamilcar Barca, the father of Hannibal."

Carthage still exists today, as a pleasant suburb of Tunis with some
ancient ruins. The Punic city was so thoroughly sacked by the Romans
that almost everything that remains today is of Roman origin. There
isn't too much to see there right now, but they recently made a huge
find behind the Carthage Museum (this find is possibly the central part
of the ancient city), and when the excavations are complete it is
likely to be one of the greatest ancient sites in the world.

wrote in message
ps.com...
"Many years ago Tunisia, or rather what now approximates to Tunisia,
was
called Carthage. Despite the fairy story that it was founded by Dido
and
Aeneas shortly after the Trojan war, it started as a trading outpost of
the
Phoenicians and the language it's people spoke was Punic. (Latin
Poenicus,
Punicus, from Poenus, a Carthaginian, from Greek Phoinix, Phoenician).
Spain, or the bottom half of it, was also a Phoenician colony having
been
conquered by Hamilcar Barca, the father of Hannibal."

Carthage still exists today, as a pleasant suburb of Tunis with some
ancient ruins. The Punic city was so thoroughly sacked by the Romans
that almost everything that remains today is of Roman origin. There
isn't too much to see there right now, but they recently made a huge
find behind the Carthage Museum (this find is possibly the central part
of the ancient city), and when the excavations are complete it is
likely to be one of the greatest ancient sites in the world.


I thought Carthage was totally destroyed and the ground salted? So are the
new finds also Roman?
Meanwhile, there are other fabulous ancient sights in Tunisia while you
wait!

Surreyman
Hundreds of trivia quizzes on travel, geography, history and much more on
http://www.sploofus.com/?ref=surreyman

If you are interested, there is a series of books written by an Edinburgh
man, Ross Leckie. The three books are Hannibal, Scipio and Carthage. They
cover the second punic war from Hannibal's youth up to the complete
eradication of Carthage from the face of the earth and it's citizens sold
into slavery or killed by Rome.

They are historical novels based on known facts, although he has filled in
the blank bits with a lot of conjecture. I went to an event at the Edinburgh
book festival a while ago where he was reading from his last book and
talking about Hannibal. He admitted he got a bit fed up with sticking to the
facts in his later books because they got in the way of a good story but
they are quite a good read.


wrote in message
ps.com...
"Many years ago Tunisia, or rather what now approximates to Tunisia,
was
called Carthage. Despite the fairy story that it was founded by Dido
and
Aeneas shortly after the Trojan war, it started as a trading outpost of
the
Phoenicians and the language it's people spoke was Punic. (Latin
Poenicus,
Punicus, from Poenus, a Carthaginian, from Greek Phoinix, Phoenician).
Spain, or the bottom half of it, was also a Phoenician colony having
been
conquered by Hamilcar Barca, the father of Hannibal."

Carthage still exists today, as a pleasant suburb of Tunis with some
ancient ruins. The Punic city was so thoroughly sacked by the Romans
that almost everything that remains today is of Roman origin. There
isn't too much to see there right now, but they recently made a huge
find behind the Carthage Museum (this find is possibly the central part
of the ancient city), and when the excavations are complete it is
likely to be one of the greatest ancient sites in the world.

I thought Carthage was totally destroyed and the ground salted?

"the city was then razed and burnt to the ground and the accursed land
covered with salt to ensure its barrenness."

So are the new finds also Roman?"

Yes. The only known Punic remains in the area are the docks.

Meanwhile, there are other fabulous ancient sights in Tunisia while you
wait!

Try Dougga and El Jem.

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:49:16 +0100, "Zichu" wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
Zichu wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Malta is culturally more European than North African however the
culinary culture did not reach Malta.

Could you be a bit more specific. Do the Maltese look and act like, for
example, the Swedes, Icelandics, Romanians, Basques, Croatians, Catalans
or
which part of Europe takes your fancy.

I was trying to get the point across briefly with out going into
detail. What I meant was the Maltese are much more European in general
than North African. It's much more culturally like Spain than it is
Tunisia (which is only 180 miles away).


Two points he

1. The Maltese can't be like Europeans because there is no such breed. It is
more a political collective noun. Posters here from the New World often make
the same mistake which you are making in using "European" as a shorthand
label for a large and diverse collection of people with many different
racial characteristics. For example, Slavic people have nothing in common
with those of Celtic decent. There are very few freckled, red haired
Sicilians, Not all that many blonde, blue eyed Basques. Europe is not one
homogenous nation, although there are some here who are trying desperately,
and fortunately failing, to turn it into "One Size Fits All"

Did anyone say that the Maltese are like Europeans? That appears to be
the statement you just addressed.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought Carthage was totally destroyed and the ground salted?

"the city was then razed and burnt to the ground and the accursed land
covered with salt to ensure its barrenness."

So are the new finds also Roman?"

Yes. The only known Punic remains in the area are the docks.

Meanwhile, there are other fabulous ancient sights in Tunisia while you
wait!

Try Dougga and El Jem.


Gotta 1960's T shirt!

Surreyman
Hundreds of trivia quizzes on travel, geography, history and much more on
http://www.sploofus.com/?ref=surreyman

Well, that doesn't give one much to go on. Unfortunate that you didn't
think to come here or go to the Lonely Planet site before you came to
Malta to ask for recommendations. Likely would have been able to make
your trip more pleasant.

The stone is sandstone, quarried right here in Malta. Folks been using
it for construction for over 5,000 years.

And as far as visiting the continent? I have lived/worked/visited over
40 countries (defined as being there for at least a month) including
about a dozen in Europe, so I have a bit of experience in traveling and
trying out the local cuisine, and have had no difficulties in finding
quality food here.

I didn't say the houses were unattractive. I meant they look like
houses from the Holy Land, not European.

The houses are made of lime stone and I'm pretty sure they are used in other
med countries too, although I could be wrong. There are fantastic villas and
big houses jotted around Malta made of this brick material.

As for the food, I mentioned 3 great restaurants already. I think its a case
of not going to recommended restaurants. Eating in the hotel or touristy
cafes is a receipie for doom in Malta as happens with most people that go
there. This doesn't mean there is no good food on the island :-). You just
need to find recommendations in guide books/internet. When I went to Rome I
had the same feelings about food. The only good meal I had was when I looked
for a recommedation. Breakfasts/cafes I find never do very good food and it
is pricey (This applies to other cities I have been to). But while I didn't
like the food in Rome, I'm sure someone can tell me great restaurants off
the top of their head, just like I have for Malta.

There are not big supermarkets on the island. The fresh meat/veg/fish is
mostly bought in the streets early in the morning. Little shops host other
items. Neither is home delivery a big thing there. Don't expect to order a
chinsese or indian takeaway. You may be able to get a way with a pizza.
For snacks the Pastizzi shops are everywhere, and while they may not look
inviting for a tourist, there are many delights in here that Maltese people
eat everyday - Probably the reason for the large obeisty problem among
teenagers. .

Malta is not big on coffee either. The likes of Starbucks haven't invaded
yet. I don't drink coffee myself but can understand that the coffee there is
not good.

So as I keep saying bad food is everywhere, not just in Malta. You just
gotta know whats good before you eat out. How about asking here for
reccomendations. Isn't that was rec.travel.europe is for?

Mike





"Derek McBryde" wrote in message
...
On 4 Jun 2005 15:35:36 -0700, wrote:

I just got back from Malta and for anyone who cares to know what I
found here it is:

On approach to the Malta airport I could not believe my eyes. Europe is
similar but different than the US in look but Malta is totally exotic.
You have seen pictures of the Holy Land? This is how Malta looks - dry,
parched land with scrub bushes, crumbling walls and mud square houses.
Here's the scoop:

Malta is culturally more European than North African however the
culinary culture did not reach Malta. Food is "horrid" to "not really
good" and expensive (about 50% to twice as much as in Europe or the
US). Housing is cheap, half that of Europe and the US. You can get a
nice hotel for like US$20.00. I chose a luxury hotel with a price of
about $125.00 but it was not up to the standards of Europe or the US.
Food was terrible and bloody expensive.
The people - a mix of European and Arabic. All were very nice. No
crime. No agression.
Would I go back? No, the food sucks.


I have to agree about the food. I probably didn't find any good
restaurants so the food I had was average to poor.

I don't agree about the houses. My impression was of stone houses
which were a sort of lovely buttery colour. I had not seen anything
like them before and I found them very attractive.

Derek

I do not agree about Celts.
Celts dominates over a large part of Europe
The Tribe BO founded Bologna(italy) but also the word Bohemia comes from BO:
"Zichu" ha scritto nel messaggio
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
Zichu wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Malta is culturally more European than North African however the
culinary culture did not reach Malta.

Could you be a bit more specific. Do the Maltese look and act like, for
example, the Swedes, Icelandics, Romanians, Basques, Croatians, Catalans
or
which part of Europe takes your fancy.

I was trying to get the point across briefly with out going into
detail. What I meant was the Maltese are much more European in general
than North African. It's much more culturally like Spain than it is
Tunisia (which is only 180 miles away).


Two points he

1. The Maltese can't be like Europeans because there is no such breed. It
is more a political collective noun. Posters here from the New World often
make the same mistake which you are making in using "European" as a
shorthand label for a large and diverse collection of people with many
different racial characteristics. For example, Slavic people have nothing
in common with those of Celtic decent. There are very few freckled, red
haired Sicilians, Not all that many blonde, blue eyed Basques. Europe is
not one homogenous nation, although there are some here who are trying
desperately, and fortunately failing, to turn it into "One Size Fits All"

2. Many years ago Tunisia, or rather what now approximates to Tunisia, was
called Carthage. Despite the fairy story that it was founded by Dido and
Aeneas shortly after the Trojan war, it started as a trading outpost of
the Phoenicians and the language it's people spoke was Punic. (Latin
Poenicus, Punicus, from Poenus, a Carthaginian, from Greek Phoinix,
Phoenician). Spain, or the bottom half of it, was also a Phoenician colony
having been conquered by Hamilcar Barca, the father of Hannibal.

Oddly enough, much of Malta's inheritance is in a direct line from the
Phoenicians too. I am sure you must have noticed the large "Hotel
Phoenicia" in Valletta by the bus station whilst you where there. It's
name is no accident. There is much common history between Malta, Spain and
Tunisia.