If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
Having an argument with friend who is going to Tel Aviv later this year. She is considering several routes: 1. NY-Toronto-Amsterdam (12 hr. layover w/free hotel) - Tel Aviv on KLM. 2. NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al 3, Use her miles for r.t to London, then a separate r/t ticket to Tel Aviv. I thought that if she was going to lay over anywhere, it might as well be London, where she's never been, because she could stay several days, since it's a different ticket than London-Tel Aviv. What can you see in 12 hours in Amsterdam, and I don't even know if it will be day or night? If it were my flight, I would take NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al. Their security is the best, and also non-stop eliminates all those landings and takeoffs, which are always the most dangerous part of a flight (even before Al Quaeda shoulder-mounted...) Choice of routes; that's up to her; it's a function of many variables, not all rational. What I would like to know for my own info: Does Toronto-Tel Aviv follow a Great Circle? IOW, does it go over the N. Pole? In that case, going NY-Toronto would not be as much out of the way as it seems. Hope this has been semi-clear. Appreciate your input. -- Traveler |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
From Toronto you have 2 non-stop choices and many connections:
Non-Stop Air Canada to Tel-Aviv El Al to Tel Aviv Connections (3 of many) KLM or Martinair or Air Canada: Toronto-Amsterdam-Tel Aviv British Airways or Air Canada: Toronto-London-Tel Aviv wrote in message ... Having an argument with friend who is going to Tel Aviv later this year. She is considering several routes: 1. NY-Toronto-Amsterdam (12 hr. layover w/free hotel) - Tel Aviv on KLM. 2. NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al 3, Use her miles for r.t to London, then a separate r/t ticket to Tel Aviv. I thought that if she was going to lay over anywhere, it might as well be London, where she's never been, because she could stay several days, since it's a different ticket than London-Tel Aviv. What can you see in 12 hours in Amsterdam, and I don't even know if it will be day or night? If it were my flight, I would take NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al. Their security is the best, and also non-stop eliminates all those landings and takeoffs, which are always the most dangerous part of a flight (even before Al Quaeda shoulder-mounted...) Choice of routes; that's up to her; it's a function of many variables, not all rational. What I would like to know for my own info: Does Toronto-Tel Aviv follow a Great Circle? IOW, does it go over the N. Pole? In that case, going NY-Toronto would not be as much out of the way as it seems. Hope this has been semi-clear. Appreciate your input. -- Traveler |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:46:40 +0300, Binyamin Dissen
wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:53:11 GMT wrote: :Having an argument with friend who is going to Tel Aviv :later this year. She is considering several routes: :1. NY-Toronto-Amsterdam (12 hr. layover w/free hotel) - Tel Aviv :on KLM. :2. NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al :3, Use her miles for r.t to London, then a separate r/t ticket :to Tel Aviv. Probably the worst choice. She will be subject to the much lower European luggage limitations. Thanks. Have forwarded that info to her. :I thought that if she was going to lay over anywhere, :it might as well be London, where she's never been, :because she could stay several days, since it's :a different ticket than London-Tel Aviv. :What can you see in 12 hours in Amsterdam, and I don't :even know if it will be day or night? Typically the flight would arrive in the morning and continue at night :If it were my flight, I would take NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al. :Their security is the best, and also non-stop eliminates all those :landings and takeoffs, which are always the most dangerous part of a :flight (even before Al Quaeda shoulder-mounted...) Also faster. But likely more expensive. $67.00 more, according to her figures. :Choice of routes; that's up to her; it's a function of many :variables, not all rational. :What I would like to know for my own info: :Does Toronto-Tel Aviv follow a Great Circle? It is Toronto-Amsterdam. ? I don't understand. I'm talking about the non-stop Toronto-Tel Aviv. It should be going north. Unclear. :IOW, does it go over the N. Pole? In that case, going :NY-Toronto would not be as much out of the way as it seems. Not that far north. I flew London-LAX years ago, over the Pole. Looked down at the Canadian barrens with the thousands of glacial lakes. Quite an experience. LAX is 34 degrees 09' N. and Tel Aviv is ~31 degrees 30' Toronto is 43 degrees 38' N. and London is much further North -- 51 degrees 33' N. So if a London-LAX flight found the shortest distance between two points was over the Pole, why wouldn't that be true as well for Toronto-Tel Aviv? DOES anyone know whether Toronto-Tel Aviv flights go over the Pole? TIA -- Traveler |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
wrote:
What I would like to know for my own info: Does Toronto-Tel Aviv follow a Great Circle? IOW, does it go over the N. Pole? In that case, going NY-Toronto would not be as much out of the way as it seems. Almost all of the AC flights across the atlantic follows the established major airways from Newfoundland(labrador) to Great Britain. There are several "tracks" over the atlantic. The northern most track goes over the southern tip of Greenland in an arc towards Scotland and onwards to Norway and Eastern Europe. The most southerly track will travel in arc passing off the west coast of Ireland and over France. The tracks in the between are busier as it's natural arc will be best for flights to LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA and MUN. I suspect the path for YYZ-TLV will closely follow the southerly track flying over france est of Paris Flying along/over Italy to TLV. Star Alliance has a screen saver that charts Star Alliance partner flights on a world map. The screen saver always seems to attract attention of who ever is in my office when it activates. You could probably see the track of YYZ-TLV using the "accelerated" mode. I'd do it today(sun), except that AC only operates on (1356), 247 are Codeshare with El-AL. AC886 leaves at 23:55 using a boeing 763. EL-AL(LY106) flight[aka. AC9580] leaves 22:45 on Thu. and 23:45 on Tue. & Sun. using Boeing 762. btw the screensaver can be grabbed from URL http://www.staralliance.com/ and following the link at the bottom of the page or go directly to URL: http://st.flightlookup.com/StarDownload/ss.html. Traveler |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:27:21 GMT, Howard Lem
wrote: wrote: What I would like to know for my own info: Does Toronto-Tel Aviv follow a Great Circle? IOW, does it go over the N. Pole? In that case, going NY-Toronto would not be as much out of the way as it seems. Almost all of the AC flights across the atlantic follows the established major airways from Newfoundland(labrador) to Great Britain. There are several "tracks" over the atlantic. The northern most track goes over the southern tip of Greenland in an arc towards Scotland and onwards to Norway and Eastern Europe. The most southerly track will travel in arc passing off the west coast of Ireland and over France. The tracks in the between are busier as it's natural arc will be best for flights to LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA and MUN. I suspect the path for YYZ-TLV will closely follow the southerly track flying over france est of Paris Flying along/over Italy to TLV. Howard, thanks for a most informative reply! You are indeed a very knowledgeable lad. So much for my outdated "over the Pole" theory. Star Alliance has a screen saver that charts Star Alliance partner flights on a world map. The screen saver always seems to attract attention of who ever is in my office when it activates. You could probably see the track of YYZ-TLV using the "accelerated" mode. I'd do it today(sun), except that AC only operates on (1356), 247 are Codeshare with El-AL. AC886 leaves at 23:55 using a boeing 763. My printout for that flight lists a 767-300. Is that "better" or "worse" than a 763? I am disappointed that they don't use a 747; I sure could have used the walking-around space on a nearly 11 hour flight (sob!). Does *anybody* still use 747s on long international flights? EL-AL(LY106) flight[aka. AC9580] leaves 22:45 on Thu. and 23:45 on Tue. & Sun. using Boeing 762. btw the screensaver can be grabbed from URL http://www.staralliance.com/ and following the link at the bottom of the page or go directly to URL: http://st.flightlookup.com/StarDownload/ss.html. I will try the Screensaver, just to see what it's like. I usually have a blank screen when my computer goes into "sleep" mode, because I heard somewhere in another galaxy that it's better for the system than having a picture screen saver -- something about phosphors not etching? This is probably a UL...I'm not techie enough to know... What do you think? -- Traveler |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:13:22 GMT wrote:
:On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:46:40 +0300, Binyamin Dissen wrote: :On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:53:11 GMT wrote: ::Having an argument with friend who is going to Tel Aviv ::later this year. She is considering several routes: ::1. NY-Toronto-Amsterdam (12 hr. layover w/free hotel) - Tel Aviv ::on KLM. ::2. NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al ::3, Use her miles for r.t to London, then a separate r/t ticket ::to Tel Aviv. :Probably the worst choice. She will be subject to the much lower European :luggage limitations. :Thanks. Have forwarded that info to her. ::I thought that if she was going to lay over anywhere, ::it might as well be London, where she's never been, ::because she could stay several days, since it's ::a different ticket than London-Tel Aviv. ::What can you see in 12 hours in Amsterdam, and I don't ::even know if it will be day or night? :Typically the flight would arrive in the morning and continue at night ::If it were my flight, I would take NY-Tel Aviv nonstop on El Al. ::Their security is the best, and also non-stop eliminates all those ::landings and takeoffs, which are always the most dangerous part of a ::flight (even before Al Quaeda shoulder-mounted...) :Also faster. But likely more expensive. :$67.00 more, according to her figures. ::Choice of routes; that's up to her; it's a function of many ::variables, not all rational. ::What I would like to know for my own info: ::Does Toronto-Tel Aviv follow a Great Circle? :It is Toronto-Amsterdam. :? I don't understand. I'm talking about the non-stop :Toronto-Tel Aviv. "1. NY-Toronto-Amsterdam (12 hr. layover w/free hotel) - Tel Aviv" If directly to TA I would expect slightly further south. :It should be going north. :Unclear. ::IOW, does it go over the N. Pole? In that case, going ::NY-Toronto would not be as much out of the way as it seems. :Not that far north. :I flew London-LAX years ago, over the Pole. Looked down :at the Canadian barrens with the thousands of glacial lakes. :Quite an experience. Are you sure it was the pole? :LAX is 34 degrees 09' N. and Tel Aviv is ~31 degrees 30' :Toronto is 43 degrees 38' N. and London is much further North -- :51 degrees 33' N. :So if a London-LAX flight found the shortest distance between two :points was over the Pole, why wouldn't that be true as well for :Toronto-Tel Aviv? Does it? :DOES anyone know whether Toronto-Tel Aviv flights :go over the Pole? Doesn't. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:13:22 GMT, wrote:
DOES anyone know whether Toronto-Tel Aviv flights go over the Pole? TIA \ Here's a generic answer: http://gc.kls2.com/ Flights generally stay pretty close to the great circle route. Sometimes they deviate north on westbound transocean routes and south on eastbound to catch or avoid winds. Sometimes they deviate for political reasons or to avoid paying ATC fees for a short excursion across a country. Sometimes a two engine plane has to stay within a certain number of minutes of an airfield. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Toronto-Tel Aviv - which route?
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:29:37 GMT, Dick Locke
wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:13:22 GMT, wrote: DOES anyone know whether Toronto-Tel Aviv flights go over the Pole? TIA \ Here's a generic answer: http://gc.kls2.com/ WHAT A GREAT SITE!!! One more thing to "waste" g my time on. I'm hooked! Flights generally stay pretty close to the great circle route. Sometimes they deviate north on westbound transocean routes and south on eastbound to catch or avoid winds. Sometimes they deviate for political reasons or to avoid paying ATC fees for a short excursion across a country. Sometimes a two engine plane has to stay within a certain number of minutes of an airfield. The 767 is a stretched twinjet, innit?. However, it's not a freighter, so I don't understand why my print-out lists "767-300", which the Boeing site identifies as a freighter. This is not the first time I ran into this. Anybody? -- Traveler |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Easy Accommodation guide for South Africa's Garden Route | Lawrence Strydom | Africa | 0 | January 13th, 2004 06:19 AM |
South Africa: Garden Route Victoria Bay surfcam proving to quite popular in the 2 weeks of operation | Justin Miles | Africa | 0 | January 12th, 2004 07:02 PM |
South Africa: - Vicbay surfcam goes live on the Garden Route | Justin Miles | Africa | 0 | December 26th, 2003 12:03 PM |
If you're going through Toronto | sarah | Africa | 0 | December 12th, 2003 12:15 AM |
TIP OF AFRICA: Cape Town & Garden Route Accommodation - South Africa | [email protected] | Africa | 0 | November 14th, 2003 09:30 AM |