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#111
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, spamfree wrote:
A better description would be Québecois and North American, as Canadians and Americans speak almost the exact same language. But do all US Americans speak the same English ? When I was a student with no great in situ experience of English I used to follow better seminars held in english by non-native english speakers than those by some Americans (I remember a gamma-ray astronomer from Alabama which was virtually unintellegible). Also at my first summer school I spent a good deal of a talk of Ethan Schreier in trying to understand what meant a word which to me sounded "madher" (it was just "matter"). Since when I spent 2 years in the UK, plus 2 more in Germany working in an english speaking environment, I now understand better native speakers (I remember with pleasure the language in "Passage to India" seen at Frankfurt airport, and "The last Emperor" seen in Baltimore) - including Americans from the west and east coast - than SOME highly accented foreigners. But still I can't understand those from southern US. I remember a movie on a plane which I could not understand at all, I switched to the german channel ! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
#112
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
Ian F. wrote: "Dave Frightens Me" wrote in message Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few different nouns, and a different accent! And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions, as in "A couple Eurostar questions". I don't think either of your examples is considered grammatically correct, even in America! (Perhaps more of our semi-literate than yours have access to computers?) Ian |
#113
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, B Vaughan wrote:
Also learning to pronounce them is not terribly difficult. English has tones as well, used to distinguish between a statement and a question, But we (I believe in all european languages at least) apply tones to sentences, not to single words or syllables. I have always been quite afraid of tonal languages. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
#114
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:51:21 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote: "Dave Frightens Me" wrote in message Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few different nouns, and a different accent! And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions, as in "A couple Eurostar questions". Actually, "gotten" was retained in American from the British of a couple centuries ago, while the Brits went on to change to the use of the appalling "got" in its place. American English retains quite a few old Britticisms now deplored by Brits who ought to know better. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#115
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:17:49 -0600, "spamfree"
wrote: Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few different nouns, and a different accent! And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions, as in "A couple Eurostar questions". But the ever-present use of bizarre British slang is acceptable, right? You are confusing two issues, language and ignorance. The OP is correct, American English is not that different from UK English. However, our educational system is a farce and most students graduate with a functionally illiterate level of English. Being "cool" has become the top priority in our society, and speaking proper English is not included in the cool factor. Really makes one wonder where Gates, Jobs, Wozniak, Moore, et al, go their educations. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#116
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:05:54 -0400, "James Silverton"
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not wrote: Hello, Ian! You wrote on Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:51:00 +0100: ?? "Gotten" was the original form in English, which has ?? persisted longer in the US than in the UK, although it's ?? also slowly vanishing in the US. Look at the OED if you ?? don't believe me. IF I do believe you - it's just that to use it is IF quintessentially American, but British kids are copying it IF now. Just as bad is "Can I get" instead of "Can I have". IF I had never heard the word "gotten" here in the UK in my IF (56 year) life until a year or so ago. ?? Dropping prepositions is not standard English in the US. IF Eh? I'm a journalist and I even get stories from major news IF agencies which say "The company announced Tuesday that a IF new director had been appointed..." or similar. ?? I'm sure there are plenty of people in the UK who also ?? speak nonstandard English. IF Thousands upon thousands, I'm sure. That's not to say it is IF to be encouraged. Just to pour a little gas on the fire! What is "Standard English": the language of the majority of speakers or that of a self appointed elite who happen to live in the place where the language started? :-) :-) A standard any language is usually the dialect of the capital region and those who made it the capital. So standard English is largely London English, standard French is Parisian French, standard German is Berlin Geman, etc. It's sort of a corrolary to "A language is a dialect with an army"; "a standard language is the dialect of those with the power". ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#117
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:08:12 -0600, "spamfree"
wrote: In Canada, if a job posting calls for applicants to be bilingual, it means French and English. You mean Quebecoise and English. You mean Québecois and American. A better description would be Québecois and North American, as Canadians and Americans speak almost the exact same language. And if we are going that far, then we need to acknowledge that Australians speak yet another dialect, so there are at least three major dialects of English: UK, NA, Aussie/NZ. You left out Indian. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#118
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:41:02 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Wolfgang Schwanke writes: You do realise that many people who learn English at school have similar problems in North America? Both problems are exaggerated. Anyone fluent in English can understand both American and British speakers. You mean "Anyone fluent in standard English can understand standard American and standard British". I daresay that a West Virgianian would have a very hard time understanding Glaswegian. Anyone fluent in French can understand both Québecois and French speakers. Again, I would hazard a guess that someone fluent in some of the regional dialects of of parts of France would have a hard time understanding some of the regional dialects of Quebec. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#119
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:39:01 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Wolfgang Schwanke writes: You didn't study linguistics. I've already said otherwise. Anybody can say they studied linguistics. On the Internet nobody knows you're a dog. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#120
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:07:36 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote: Iceman wrote: Mine too, but they no longer offer that many. It's a shame that they don't start teaching languages in elementary school. Waiting until high school makes it too difficult to become fluent in a second language. And they don't teach practical languages other than Spanish. Chinese, Japanese, Brazilian Portuguese, and maybe Arabic or Russian are more valuable than French or German. And even many universities don't offer all of those languages. French is useful in Canada, since it is officially a bilingual country, and being able to speak both official languages opens more career opportunities. I suspect your typical Albertan doesn't gibe a hoot about the lnaguage of Quebec, and probbly wouldn't care if Quebec floated off into the Atlantic. Actually, I suspect you know that, too. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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