Paris 28-30°C this week

Mxsmanic wrote:

David Horne writes:

Well, AC uses a huge amount of energy. I don't for one minute dispute
that it isn't necessary in many cases, but I also think that other
alternatives should be used ...

There are no alternatives. All methods of lowering temperature expend a
great deal of energy.

Well, in as much as the 'greater energy' going into a better building
design, yes. Move to a better ventilated, better designed apartment
(you've complained previously that Parisian apartments _are_ badly
designed for hot weather) and you'll need to use A/C less, if not never.
I can't tell you that _you_ will never need to use it in your home, but
I certainly wouldn't.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Mxsmanic wrote:

David Horne writes:

They're chilly even when it's hot outside.

The ones in France must be exceptions to this rule.

No, they're not. You're under an odd impression that no one else ever
visits them.

I don't believe you.

So?

Like I said, I don't believe you.

I was in Notre Dame just after the heat wave. There wasn't even residual
heat.

How long after?

A couple of days.

It was still warm outside (but not hot) and it felt chilly inside.

What was the actual temperature?

It doesn't matter.

Does it matter, if it felt cool?

Yes, since your subjective perception may not be congruent with reality.

It doesn't matter. I wouldn't have needed A/C. If _you_ didn''t feel the
need for A/C in your apartment, it wouldn't matter to you whether or not
it was a subjective perception either.

But, this is _all_ about subjective perception, because despite your
attempts to prove otherwise, you haven't convinced me that you need A/C
in Parisian homes.

The point, missed on you, is that he's able to live perfectly well at
home without AC.

Most people don't spend their lives at home.

Nice change of argument, and it won't work. I've pointed out before this
_is_ about homes. If you want to discuss the need for A/C in offices,
it's a different argument, and given the poor design of many such
buildings, you'd be suprised to know how often I would concur that A/C
is necessary in those environments- though I might plead with some
companies to at least switch it down a little.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

wrote:

But not cold enough that ice could be kept year-round in the open. Yet it
could in these specially designed buildings...

Mixi doesn't drink, which might also explain why he seems to know little
about this issue. Think wine cellars, cask temperature, etc.

True, albeit irrelevant. Are you suggesting that if I had spent all week
at home I would have died from the lack of AC?

He's suggested close to that in the past.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

David Horne wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:


David Horne writes:


Well, AC uses a huge amount of energy. I don't for one minute dispute
that it isn't necessary in many cases, but I also think that other
alternatives should be used ...

There are no alternatives. All methods of lowering temperature expend a
great deal of energy.


Well, in as much as the 'greater energy' going into a better building
design, yes. Move to a better ventilated, better designed apartment
(you've complained previously that Parisian apartments _are_ badly
designed for hot weather) and you'll need to use A/C less, if not never.
I can't tell you that _you_ will never need to use it in your home, but
I certainly wouldn't.

David

This reminds me of a question about air conditioners I see for sale here
in France. They apparently can be put anywhere in a room, and don't
exhaust air/water to the outside. Back in the US, all the air
conditioners I ever used were installed in windows, and they produced
cool air in the room, and as a by product produced hotter air to the
outdoors, along with the water from the dehumidifying action. How can
these French air conditioners possibly work? My husband and I are
mystified....

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:04:59 +0200, Ellie C wrote:


This reminds me of a question about air conditioners I see for sale here
in France. They apparently can be put anywhere in a room, and don't
exhaust air/water to the outside. Back in the US, all the air
conditioners I ever used were installed in windows, and they produced
cool air in the room, and as a by product produced hotter air to the
outdoors, along with the water from the dehumidifying action. How can
these French air conditioners possibly work? My husband and I are
mystified....

Sounds like the holy ghost at work. A miracle?

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:04:59 +0200, Ellie C wrote:



This reminds me of a question about air conditioners I see for sale here
in France. They apparently can be put anywhere in a room, and don't
exhaust air/water to the outside. Back in the US, all the air
conditioners I ever used were installed in windows, and they produced
cool air in the room, and as a by product produced hotter air to the
outdoors, along with the water from the dehumidifying action. How can
these French air conditioners possibly work? My husband and I are
mystified....


They do vent the heat outdoors, through a length of tubing. See:

http://www.compactappliance.com/cont...n.jsp?cid=1254

for a description of how it works. Not a bad idea, actually;
saves the chore of wrestling a heavy unit into position in a window.

-- Ron

Ellie C writes:

This reminds me of a question about air conditioners I see for sale here
in France. They apparently can be put anywhere in a room, and don't
exhaust air/water to the outside.

Then they are not air conditioners. All true refrigeration systems must
exhaust heat to the outside environment.

How can these French air conditioners possibly work?

Unless they have a way of exhausting heat to the outside (a tube that
carries hot air outside, or a detached component that sits outside and
blows off heat), they can't. They may be simple fans being incorrectly
advertised as air conditioners. The French don't know the difference.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Ronald Hands wrote:


On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:04:59 +0200, Ellie C wrote:



This reminds me of a question about air conditioners I see for sale
here in France. They apparently can be put anywhere in a room, and
don't exhaust air/water to the outside. Back in the US, all the air
conditioners I ever used were installed in windows, and they produced
cool air in the room, and as a by product produced hotter air to the
outdoors, along with the water from the dehumidifying action. How can
these French air conditioners possibly work? My husband and I are
mystified....



They do vent the heat outdoors, through a length of tubing. See:

http://www.compactappliance.com/cont...n.jsp?cid=1254


for a description of how it works. Not a bad idea, actually; saves the
chore of wrestling a heavy unit into position in a window.

-- Ron

Yes, they could be something like this. Further research on the web,
though, shows that the word "climatiseur" has many meanings, at least as
far as advertising is concerned. Amusingly, an air purifier that we
bought last winter is now being sold as a climatiseur.

It's been summer like here in the Aude, but nothing like what would
require an air conditioner, as yet. This is my opinion, of course,
colored by living most of my life in the US. The Brits here often remark
on how terribly hot it is, on days when I think the temperature and
humidity are simply perfect. All in what one is used to, I guess.

Ellie C extrapolated from data available...



It's been summer like here in the Aude, but nothing like what would
require an air conditioner, as yet. This is my opinion, of course,
colored by living most of my life in the US. The Brits here often
remark on how terribly hot it is, on days when I think the temperature
and humidity are simply perfect. All in what one is used to, I guess.



Since the temperature range here yesterday was a not abnormal
early/midsummer 25C (early morn) - 35C (midafternoon), I'm not really
daunted by European Summer temps.

TMO

Ellie C extrapolated from data available...



It's been summer like here in the Aude, but nothing like what would
require an air conditioner, as yet. This is my opinion, of course,
colored by living most of my life in the US. The Brits here often
remark on how terribly hot it is, on days when I think the temperature
and humidity are simply perfect. All in what one is used to, I guess.



Since the temperature range here yesterday was a not abnormal
early/midsummer 25C (early morn) - 35C (midafternoon), I'm not really
daunted by European Summer temps.

TMO