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Woman Sues Airline For Humiliation Over Her Weight
Bob Myers wrote:
"Matt" wrote in message ... No, they make seats big enough to fit 99.999% of passengers. I'd be curious to know where you came up with that figure, and what you mean by "fit." My problem is generally with the pitch - I am definitely NOT comfortable if I can't get a seat in the "Economy Plus" section (one reason I still maintain my frequent flyer status on United - and God knows there are few enough reasons these days, but that's another thread). Would you suggest that I pay for two seats, and have them remove the one in front of me, or would it be best just to have my legs shortened by a few inches before my next trip? Bob M. No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at best. But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend because there are already too many students there. Those scenarios are absurd. Colleges always accomodate incoming Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements must be made for their housing. So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find that there's no room on the plane? I wish airlines would either stop overbooking (or make an effort to do so). If they can't, then they should 1:give bumped passengers free tickets on the next flight to their destination no matter what airline it's on (the airline that bumped them buys the ticket on a competitor if it needs to); 2: as a rule -underbook- the last flight of the day to any given destination, so that this flight can pick up bumped passengers from earlier flights. |
#2
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Adam Weiss wrote:
No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at best. But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend because there are already too many students there. The solution to your problem would be to make all tickets non refundable and non changeable. That way, if you pay for a seat and it goes empty, the airline doesn't lose the revenue. In the current pricing structure, if they didn't overbook, then they would fly with empty seats. Flying with empty seats is not seen as a way to maximize revenue. So, the goal is to guess exactly how many won't show up, and overbook by that exact number. The closer the guess, the greater the revenue. The other alternative is that if you want a seat on the next flight, no matter what carrier, pay for it. The overbook airline would refund the money for your ticket. Yes, you will probably have to pay more for it than the seat you have already purchased, but then someone has to pay for it. Amazing how many people want such benefits, but only a small percentage are willing to pay for them. People, in general, do NOT want non-refundable or non-changeable tickets. It has been tried and it has failed. People, in general, want lower priced tickets. People, in general, have proven that they are willing to make trade offs to get those cheaper tickets. Compare service between now and 30 years ago. Most people would say that economy class service is not the same product as it was 30 or 40 years ago. The price reductions from 30 or 40 years ago have been substantial. Was there some expectation that you could have the same service for far less money? |
#3
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Adam Weiss wrote:
No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at best. But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend because there are already too many students there. The solution to your problem would be to make all tickets non refundable and non changeable. That way, if you pay for a seat and it goes empty, the airline doesn't lose the revenue. In the current pricing structure, if they didn't overbook, then they would fly with empty seats. Flying with empty seats is not seen as a way to maximize revenue. So, the goal is to guess exactly how many won't show up, and overbook by that exact number. The closer the guess, the greater the revenue. The other alternative is that if you want a seat on the next flight, no matter what carrier, pay for it. The overbook airline would refund the money for your ticket. Yes, you will probably have to pay more for it than the seat you have already purchased, but then someone has to pay for it. Amazing how many people want such benefits, but only a small percentage are willing to pay for them. People, in general, do NOT want non-refundable or non-changeable tickets. It has been tried and it has failed. People, in general, want lower priced tickets. People, in general, have proven that they are willing to make trade offs to get those cheaper tickets. Compare service between now and 30 years ago. Most people would say that economy class service is not the same product as it was 30 or 40 years ago. The price reductions from 30 or 40 years ago have been substantial. Was there some expectation that you could have the same service for far less money? |
#4
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"Adam Weiss" wrote in message ... No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at best. Why do you think that is? Because the passengers care more about fares than comfort and service. Is that the fault of the airlines? But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a If they didn't overbook then every flight would probably be 20% empty from no-shows, and you'd have to pay more for your ticket to pay for all the empty seats. I do agree that they should put you on the next flight, even if it is a competitor. Matt |
#5
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"Adam Weiss" wrote in message ... No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at best. Why do you think that is? Because the passengers care more about fares than comfort and service. Is that the fault of the airlines? But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a If they didn't overbook then every flight would probably be 20% empty from no-shows, and you'd have to pay more for your ticket to pay for all the empty seats. I do agree that they should put you on the next flight, even if it is a competitor. Matt |
#6
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On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:02:42 GMT, Adam Weiss
wrote: Bob Myers wrote: "Matt" wrote in message ... No, they make seats big enough to fit 99.999% of passengers. I'd be curious to know where you came up with that figure, and what you mean by "fit." My problem is generally with the pitch - I am definitely NOT comfortable if I can't get a seat in the "Economy Plus" section (one reason I still maintain my frequent flyer status on United - and God knows there are few enough reasons these days, but that's another thread). Would you suggest that I pay for two seats, and have them remove the one in front of me, or would it be best just to have my legs shortened by a few inches before my next trip? Bob M. No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at best. Yes, this is called capitalism. It's about free markets, airlines are businesses, they respond to market demands. The market demands lowest ticket price above all. It is not a perfect system, but in my opinion in areas such as air transport it is preferable to an entitlement culture in some socialist paradise where the government runs businesses. But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend because there are already too many students there. Those scenarios are absurd. Colleges always accomodate incoming Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements must be made for their housing. So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find that there's no room on the plane? I wish airlines would either stop overbooking (or make an effort to do so). If they can't, then they should 1:give bumped passengers free tickets on the next flight to their destination no matter what airline it's on (the airline that bumped them buys the ticket on a competitor if it needs to); 2: as a rule -underbook- the last flight of the day to any given destination, so that this flight can pick up bumped passengers from earlier flights. Fine, so you want higher airfares for everyone. Why don't you just come out and say so? --==++AJC++==-- |
#7
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On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:02:42 GMT, Adam Weiss
wrote: Bob Myers wrote: "Matt" wrote in message ... No, they make seats big enough to fit 99.999% of passengers. I'd be curious to know where you came up with that figure, and what you mean by "fit." My problem is generally with the pitch - I am definitely NOT comfortable if I can't get a seat in the "Economy Plus" section (one reason I still maintain my frequent flyer status on United - and God knows there are few enough reasons these days, but that's another thread). Would you suggest that I pay for two seats, and have them remove the one in front of me, or would it be best just to have my legs shortened by a few inches before my next trip? Bob M. No kidding. Airlines seem to have taken the approach that their job is to get people in coach from one place to another at the lowest possible cost. Comfort and service for coach passengers are an after thought at best. Yes, this is called capitalism. It's about free markets, airlines are businesses, they respond to market demands. The market demands lowest ticket price above all. It is not a perfect system, but in my opinion in areas such as air transport it is preferable to an entitlement culture in some socialist paradise where the government runs businesses. But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold to someone else. Imagine if your kid was accepted to college, you paid his tuition, and arrived the first day only to find that he can't attend because there are already too many students there. Those scenarios are absurd. Colleges always accomodate incoming Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements must be made for their housing. So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find that there's no room on the plane? I wish airlines would either stop overbooking (or make an effort to do so). If they can't, then they should 1:give bumped passengers free tickets on the next flight to their destination no matter what airline it's on (the airline that bumped them buys the ticket on a competitor if it needs to); 2: as a rule -underbook- the last flight of the day to any given destination, so that this flight can pick up bumped passengers from earlier flights. Fine, so you want higher airfares for everyone. Why don't you just come out and say so? --==++AJC++==-- |
#8
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Adam Weiss wrote:
Colleges always accomodate incoming Freshman, even when there are so many of them that special arrangements must be made for their housing. False, actually. It's been known to happen that colleges turn away "incoming Freshman", even if tuition had been paid. |
#9
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AJC wrote:
Yes, this is called capitalism. It's about free markets, airlines are businesses, they respond to market demands. The market demands lowest ticket price above all. It is not a perfect system, but in my opinion in areas such as air transport it is preferable to an entitlement culture in some socialist paradise where the government runs businesses. The big airlines have proven that they aren't very quick to respond to market trends. Witness the fact that startups are generally profitable while established airlines struggle to be so. It's not just because the established airlines have to pay employee pensions. It's also because the airlines still operate on the outdated hub and spoke model while startups concentrate on money making routes. Why do I bring this up? Because even if passengers demanded better comfort at a slightly higher price (as it certainly appears some are doing here, including myself), it's doubtful that anyone other than a startup would heed the call, and the startup would see that the competition isn't doing it so they'd stop too. Fine, so you want higher airfares for everyone. Why don't you just come out and say so? No. I just wouldn't mind another class in airplanes, between coach and business. I personally want to fly an airline that cares about me, but it's hard to justify $900 or more for a business or first class ticket. "Economy Plus" is a joke. It's not an official class like first, business, or coach. It should be. If I could pay $50 or $100 more than a regular coach ticket, get better legroom, slightly better food (not talking the 4 course meals they serve in first class here), and a guarantee that I'll have a seat on the plane I made a reservation on - I'd do it! I'm not interested in forcing you to do it as well. If you're happy with coach you're welcomed to it. --==++AJC++==-- |
#10
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On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:02:42 GMT, Adam Weiss
wrote: But to change the subject if I may, the thing that really bothers me about airlines is overbooking. Imagine if you had bought and paid for a car, only to arrive at the dealership to find that the car has been sold to someone else. I've known this to happen in the UK, especially with cars on long waiting lists, the new car comes in, but instead of going to the guy who ordered it, it's been given to someone else as a replacement for a broken one, or less often sold to someone who paid more to jump the queue. So why is it that you can reserve seats on a flight, check your bags, go all the way through security with your confirmed ticket, only to find that there's no room on the plane? but you're offerred compensation for your trouble, I don't see anything wrong with it. Jim. |
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