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Greek Child Murderer tries to wriggle away from justice



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 30th, 2006, 08:55 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
Andy Pandy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 431
Default Greek Child Murderer tries to wriggle away from justice


"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message
...
The hotel manager, owner and two maintenance staff face up to five
years in jail if convicted of manslaughter.

This is the sort of nonsence that used to happen in the UK.

Each blames the other and no-one is convicted. Now the
rules in the UK have been changed so the responsibility
is farely and squarely with the owner. Unless the other
parties have done something stupid, like falsified the test
certificate or similar, they stand no chance of geting put
in the dock, which IMHO is how it should be.


Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out, and
he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?


I was thinking, working owner (which this person appears to
be), not shareholders in a PLC


Why does he have a manager then?

What if the owner had no involvment in the day to day running of the hotel?

What if the owner popped in twice a year to check all was OK but left everything else
to the manager?

What if he popped in once a month?

What if he put in the manager's job description that all the necessary tests should
be carried out, but the manager didn't?

--
Andy


  #12  
Old October 30th, 2006, 08:59 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
gogu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Idiot and racist TURKISH TROLL exposes once again his RACSIM and hatred.

Ο "tim(yet another new home)" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message
...
The hotel manager, owner and two maintenance staff face up to five
years in jail if convicted of manslaughter.

This is the sort of nonsence that used to happen in the UK.

Each blames the other and no-one is convicted. Now the
rules in the UK have been changed so the responsibility
is farely and squarely with the owner. Unless the other
parties have done something stupid, like falsified the test
certificate or similar, they stand no chance of geting put
in the dock, which IMHO is how it should be.



Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out, and
he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?



I was thinking, working owner (which this person appears to
be), not shareholders in a PLC


???
How can you say that?
The hotel is part of an international chain of hotels, the Louis hotels!
It is not a "working owner" case!

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


  #13  
Old October 30th, 2006, 09:01 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
gogu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Idiot and racist TURKISH TROLL exposes once again his RACSIM and hatred.

Ο "Sarah Banick" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
. ..

Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out,
and he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?



Theoretically, the shareholders should lose value of their shares. But, at
least in US corporations, the legal structure of the corporation places
that final responsibilty in management -- the Board members who are
elected by the shareholders. They are all insured in case of this.


Same is valid here in Greece.

But was the hotel a corporation, or just a small business?


An international hotel chain, the Luis hotels of Cypriot ownership IIRC.
I have stayed in that hotel about 3-4 years ago in an April with the
occasion of the Orthodox Easter (Corfu is maybe destination number 1 for the
Greeks who want a small vacation with the occasion of Easter...) and I can
say that it's a 5 stars hotel. Nevertheless s*** happen even in the best
families as a Greek saying goes...

If it is a small business, the owner is responsible, because he/she hired
the manager to represent him/her. The buck stops here. Of course, I'm
making comments based on US concepts that are probably useless in Greece,
so I'll shut up now.


No, you are doing well to expose your opinion so everybody can learn from
people living miles away:-)
Just disregard the Turkish TROLL who posted the original message, racist
idiots full of hatred there are in every country, this one happens to be a
Turk...


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html



  #14  
Old October 30th, 2006, 09:10 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
Alan[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 299
Default Greek Child Murderer tries to wriggle away from justice


"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message
...

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message
...
The hotel manager, owner and two maintenance staff face up to five
years in jail if convicted of manslaughter.

This is the sort of nonsence that used to happen in the UK.

Each blames the other and no-one is convicted. Now the
rules in the UK have been changed so the responsibility
is farely and squarely with the owner. Unless the other
parties have done something stupid, like falsified the test
certificate or similar, they stand no chance of geting put
in the dock, which IMHO is how it should be.


Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out, and
he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?


I was thinking, working owner (which this person appears to
be), not shareholders in a PLC

tim




as an example, if you had your car passed on an MOT then a couple of days
later your track rod end came adrift causing your car to steer onto the
pavement and kill 2 or 3 pedestrians who is to blame --- i say the tester
as he confirmed that the vehicle was roadworthy and there is no way in
that short time span that part could have worn to that degree. so on this
basis the technitian should be blamed for the hotel disaster if he passed
the instalation as fit for purpose, if he had noticed (or cared) about the
hole in the wall or any other issue he should have failed the system
immediately



  #15  
Old October 31st, 2006, 02:06 AM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
choro-nik
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Idiot and racist TURKISH TROLL exposes once again his RACSIM and hatred.

'gogu' you are nothing but a "porco di cane" -- a bloated tick and the
worthless son of a 'grande pouttane' -- a grand whore!

--
choro-nik
*******
"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ο "Sarah Banick" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...

Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out,
and he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?



Theoretically, the shareholders should lose value of their shares. But,
at least in US corporations, the legal structure of the corporation
places that final responsibilty in management -- the Board members who
are elected by the shareholders. They are all insured in case of this.


Same is valid here in Greece.

But was the hotel a corporation, or just a small business?


An international hotel chain, the Luis hotels of Cypriot ownership IIRC.
I have stayed in that hotel about 3-4 years ago in an April with the
occasion of the Orthodox Easter (Corfu is maybe destination number 1 for
the Greeks who want a small vacation with the occasion of Easter...) and I
can say that it's a 5 stars hotel. Nevertheless s*** happen even in the
best families as a Greek saying goes...

If it is a small business, the owner is responsible, because he/she hired
the manager to represent him/her. The buck stops here. Of course, I'm
making comments based on US concepts that are probably useless in Greece,
so I'll shut up now.


No, you are doing well to expose your opinion so everybody can learn from
people living miles away:-)
Just disregard the Turkish TROLL who posted the original message, racist
idiots full of hatred there are in every country, this one happens to be a
Turk...


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html




  #16  
Old October 31st, 2006, 03:15 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
© Da Hui ®™[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Idiot and racist gogu Papfloratos TROLL exposes once again his RACSIM and hatred.


gogu wrote:
Ο "tim(yet another new home)" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
...

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message
...
The hotel manager, owner and two maintenance staff face up to five
years in jail if convicted of manslaughter.

This is the sort of nonsence that used to happen in the UK.

Each blames the other and no-one is convicted. Now the
rules in the UK have been changed so the responsibility
is farely and squarely with the owner. Unless the other
parties have done something stupid, like falsified the test
certificate or similar, they stand no chance of geting put
in the dock, which IMHO is how it should be.



Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out, and
he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?



I was thinking, working owner (which this person appears to
be), not shareholders in a PLC


???
How can you say that?
The hotel is part of an international chain of hotels, the Louis hotels!
It is not a "working owner" case!




AREN'T YOU THE LYING GREEK FROM KALAMARIA WHO EARLIER POSTED A
FABRICATED DENIAL THAT THIS WAS INDEED CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING ?

YOU ARE THE GREEK LIAR AREN'T YOU, KOSTAS gogu PAPAFLORATOS

  #17  
Old October 31st, 2006, 04:32 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
Sarah Banick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 488
Default Greek Child Murderer tries to wriggle away from justice


"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"Sarah Banick" wrote in message
. ..

Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out,
and
he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?


Theoretically, the shareholders should lose value of their shares.


Only if the company goes bust, and anyway that's not prosecution, that's
just losing
an investment.


It doesn't have to go bust to lose a huge portion of its value. And if that
is your retirement savings, it is punishment enough. That's why shareholders
are demanding more accountability from boards. Shareholders ARE the owners,
and they do get screwed (just ask any former Enron employee)



But, at
least in US corporations, the legal structure of the corporation places
that
final responsibilty in management -- the Board members who are elected by
the shareholders. They are all insured in case of this.


We're talking about criminal responsibility. How can you insure against
getting set
to prison for manslaughter?


No, you can't insure for that -- or for the type of issues that execs at
Tyco, Enron, etc. are now on trial/in jail for. But if you come after money,
the insurance handles it. After Sarbanes-Oxley*, however, there is the
possibility of personal liability and corps are getting much pickier about
their board members.

*recent changes in US laws to try to control corrupts corporations



But was the hotel a corporation, or just a small business? If it is a
small
business, the owner is responsible, because he/she hired the manager to
represent him/her. The buck stops here. Of course, I'm making comments
based
on US concepts that are probably useless in Greece, so I'll shut up now.


Really? So if you hire someone who does something stupid, illegal, or
negligent, you
are responsible? Even if there is no way you could have known or suspected
they were
incompetant or crooked?


Again, I don't know where you are from, but in the US the owner is
responsible. You do background checks before you hire, you specify things in
a contract, but if you are the owner (depending on your legal
classification), you will be ultimately responsible. The owner holds the
business license and any other permits. He/she has a "contract" with hotel
patrons to provide a safe holiday experience. The manager is his
representative. If that contract is broken by an idiot employee, the owner
has failed to meet his responsibilities. That's why any business owner needs
to keep a close eye on their investment, even if they have to hire outside
auditors/consultants to keep an eye on the manager/staff actions. An owner
should see regular reports from the manager, including all costs for
building maintenance.

In today's climate of pointing fingers, it may be hard to believe. But it's
true.


  #18  
Old October 31st, 2006, 09:16 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
Andy Pandy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 431
Default Greek Child Murderer tries to wriggle away from justice


"Sarah Banick" wrote in message
. ..
Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out,
and
he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?

Theoretically, the shareholders should lose value of their shares.


Only if the company goes bust, and anyway that's not prosecution, that's
just losing
an investment.


It doesn't have to go bust to lose a huge portion of its value. And if that
is your retirement savings, it is punishment enough. That's why shareholders
are demanding more accountability from boards. Shareholders ARE the owners,
and they do get screwed (just ask any former Enron employee)


But that goes without saying - if you invest in a company whose management or
employees screw things up then you lose, if they do well and make loads of money then
you win, that's the nature of owning a company/hotel/shares/whatever.

But there's a massive difference between that and criminal responsibility.

But, at
least in US corporations, the legal structure of the corporation places
that
final responsibilty in management -- the Board members who are elected by
the shareholders. They are all insured in case of this.


We're talking about criminal responsibility. How can you insure against
getting set
to prison for manslaughter?


No, you can't insure for that -- or for the type of issues that execs at
Tyco, Enron, etc. are now on trial/in jail for. But if you come after money,
the insurance handles it. After Sarbanes-Oxley*, however, there is the
possibility of personal liability and corps are getting much pickier about
their board members.

*recent changes in US laws to try to control corrupts corporations


And stupid security requirements IIRC.

But was the hotel a corporation, or just a small business? If it is a
small
business, the owner is responsible, because he/she hired the manager to
represent him/her. The buck stops here. Of course, I'm making comments
based
on US concepts that are probably useless in Greece, so I'll shut up now.


Really? So if you hire someone who does something stupid, illegal, or
negligent, you
are responsible? Even if there is no way you could have known or suspected
they were
incompetant or crooked?


Again, I don't know where you are from, but in the US the owner is
responsible. You do background checks before you hire, you specify things in
a contract, but if you are the owner (depending on your legal
classification), you will be ultimately responsible. The owner holds the
business license and any other permits. He/she has a "contract" with hotel
patrons to provide a safe holiday experience. The manager is his
representative. If that contract is broken by an idiot employee, the owner
has failed to meet his responsibilities. That's why any business owner needs
to keep a close eye on their investment, even if they have to hire outside
auditors/consultants to keep an eye on the manager/staff actions. An owner
should see regular reports from the manager, including all costs for
building maintenance.

In today's climate of pointing fingers, it may be hard to believe. But it's
true.


So the owner is *criminally* responsible for actions committed by his manager/staff??

What a ridiculous situation - just as stupid as UK laws a couple of centuries ago
where men could be sent to prison for crimes committed by their wives.

--
Andy


  #19  
Old October 31st, 2006, 10:29 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
gogu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Idiot and racist TURKISH TROLL exposes once again his RACSIM and hatred.

? "choro-nik" ?????? ??? ??????
. uk...
'gogu' you are nothing but a "porco di cane" -- a bloated tick and the
worthless son of a 'grande pouttane' -- a grand whore!



What I was saying gentlemen?;-)
Just disregard the usual fascist, VULGAR, BARBARIAN Turks like this worm;-)
Their only contribution is TROLL-ing and FLAMING!
Their only contribution is name calling, VULGAR language, etc...
Oh well, they are those rotten, fascist Turks who are giving a bad name to
their country...
Thank G-d not all the Turks are animals like these.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


--
choro-nik
*******
"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ο "Sarah Banick" έγραψε στο μήνυμα
m...

Why? If it was the manager's job to ensure the tests are carried out,
and he didn't,
then why is the owner responsible?

If I own shares in a company that kills someone due to negligent
management, do I and
the other shareholders get prosecuted rather than the company's
management?



Theoretically, the shareholders should lose value of their shares. But,
at least in US corporations, the legal structure of the corporation
places that final responsibilty in management -- the Board members who
are elected by the shareholders. They are all insured in case of this.


Same is valid here in Greece.

But was the hotel a corporation, or just a small business?


An international hotel chain, the Luis hotels of Cypriot ownership IIRC.
I have stayed in that hotel about 3-4 years ago in an April with the
occasion of the Orthodox Easter (Corfu is maybe destination number 1 for
the Greeks who want a small vacation with the occasion of Easter...) and
I can say that it's a 5 stars hotel. Nevertheless s*** happen even in the
best families as a Greek saying goes...

If it is a small business, the owner is responsible, because he/she
hired the manager to represent him/her. The buck stops here. Of course,
I'm making comments based on US concepts that are probably useless in
Greece, so I'll shut up now.


No, you are doing well to expose your opinion so everybody can learn from
people living miles away:-)
Just disregard the Turkish TROLL who posted the original message, racist
idiots full of hatred there are in every country, this one happens to be
a Turk...


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html







  #20  
Old October 31st, 2006, 11:52 PM posted to soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,alt.travel.greece,rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.misc
choro-nik
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Idiot and racist gogu Papfloratos TROLL exposes once again his RACSIM and hatred.

The only vermin around here is you, Panta, you 'Poutana (whore) of Cairo'.
What the **** are you doing here when you are not even a Greek nor even an
Armenian?

--
choro-nik
*******
"Panta Rhei" wrote in message
...
© Da Hui ®T, a full-blown psychopath, as you can see, writes:

snip the poor screeching, psychopathic sod's usual garbage

Just keep your shirt on, asshole Ruttledge, you screeching vermin! You
already got enough kicks in your miserable psychopathic existence from the
death of those two children!

F'up to alt.asshole.sean-ruttledge

--
If stupidity had financial value you'd be stinking rich, Sean Ruttledge.


 




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