Showing ID at the airport - thru the looking glass...

Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -

=================================


John Gilmore's isolation began July 4, 2002, when he strolled to the
Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his
ticket.

The gate agent asked for his ID.

Gilmore asked her why.

It is the law, she said.

Gilmore asked to see the law.

Nobody could produce a copy. The regulation that mandates ID at
airports is Sensitive Security Information. The law is unavailable for
inspection.

"Are they saying we can't travel without identity papers? If that's
true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we
want to introduce required identity papers in our society, rather than
trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations that
say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said.

Gilmore is grounded. He cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can
he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or clear security in
the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard.

Gilmore is asking just how much citizens are giving up when they hand
their driver's license to a third party, where it is put into a
database they cannot see, to meet a law that, as it turns out, they
are not allowed to read.

"I will show a passport to travel internationally. I'm not willing to
show a passport to travel in my own country," Gilmore said. "I used to
laugh at countries that had internal passports. It's happened here and
people don't even seem to know about it."

Gilmore's famous visit to two airline ticket counters in the Bay Area
was charted out. He checked in with his lawyer. He kept notes. He
booked a flight from Oakland to Washington DC, where he planned to
drop in on the offices of his member of congress to convey his growing
concern about the amount of data the government is gathering from and
about its citizens.

His reason for travel, he would later say, was "to petition the
government for redress." That added First Amendment issues to a
Constitutional exercise that would also turn on the amendments against
unreasonable search and seizure and the right to assemble and petition
the government for redress of grievances.

Everything went pretty much according to expectations. That is to say,
everything went to hell in a hurry.

As Gilmore tells it, he arrived at the gate two hours early, a paper
ticket purchased through a travel agent in his hand. A Southwest agent
asked for his ID. Gilmore, in turn, asked her if the ID requirement
was an airline rule or a government rule. She didn't seem to know.
Gilmore argued that if nobody could show him the law, he wasn't
showing them an ID.

They reached a strange agreement for an argument about personal
privacy - in lieu of showing ID, Gilmore would consent to an
extra-close search, putting up with a pat-down in order to keep his
personal identity to himself. He was wanded, patted down and sent
along.

As Gilmore headed up the boarding ramp a security guard yanked him
from line. According to court papers, a security agent named Reggie
Wauls informed Gilmore he would not be flying that day.

"He said, 'I didn't let you fly because you said you had an ID and
wouldn't show it,' " Gilmore said. "I asked, 'Does that mean if I'd
left it at home I'd be on the plane?' He said, I didn't say that."

When Gilmore asked to see the rules explaining why his photo ID is
necessary for airline security, his request was denied. The regulation
under which the Transportation Safety Administration instructs the
airlines to collect such identification is classified as Sensitive
Security Information.

When Congress passes a law, it is as often as not up to some agency to
decide what that law means and how to enforce it. Usually, those
regulations are available for people to examine, even challenge if
they conflict with the Constitution.

This wasn't the case when Congress passed the Air Transportation
Security Act of 1974. The Department of Transportation was instructed
to hold close information that would constitute an unwarranted
invasion of personal privacy or reveal trade secrets or be detrimental
to the safety of persons traveling in air transportation.

The Federal Aviation Administration drew up regulations that
established the category now known as Sensitive Security Information.

When the responsibility for air travel safety was transferred to the
newly created TSA, which was in turn made a branch of the new
Department of Homeland Security, the oversight for Sensitive Security
Information went with it. The language in the Homeland Security Act
was broadened, subtly but unmistakably, where SSI was concerned.

It could not be divulged if it would "be detrimental to the security
of transportation."

"By removing any reference to persons or passengers, Congress has
significantly broadened the scope of SSI authority," wrote Todd
Tatelman, an attorney for the Congressional Research Office. Tatelman
was asked by Congress last year to look at the implications of
Gilmore's case.

Tatelman's report found that the broadened language essentially put a
cocoon of secrecy around 16 categories of information, such as
security programs, security directives, security measures, security
screening information "and a general category consisting of 'other
information.' "

The government has been so unyielding on disclosure that when baggage
screeners were caught pilfering, prosecutions were dropped because a
trial would require a discussion of Sensitive Security Information.

When John Gilmore demanded proof that the airport ID rule met
Constitutional muster, the government at first declined to acknowledge
it even existed.

Ann Davis, a spokeswoman for TSA, tacitly acknowledged the strange
rabbit hole into which Gilmore has fallen. The Department of Justice,
in its first response to Gilmore's suit two years ago, declined to
acknowledge whether such an instruction existed. Later, it admitted
its existence. Then the government asked a judge to hold a hearing in
secret and preclude Gilmore's lawyers from seeing the regulation they
sought to challenge, the contents of which seem to be pretty widely
known.

"It's a rubber stamp. TSA security directives are - plural - sensitive
security information and not subject to public disclosure," Davis
said.

How, then, is someone to challenge in court a law he's not allowed to
see?

"I have no idea," Davis said. "If a passenger doesn't wish to show ID
prior to getting a boarding pass, that's something they're going to
have to take up with the air carrier. And the air carrier is required
to obtain government-issued identification."

That, says Gilmore's lawyer, Jim Harrison, is the enigma of the case.
"It's about the ability of the citizens of this country to be able to
move about the country, to move about freely, without being subject to
laws they can't see."


http://www.postgazette.com/pg/05058/462446.stm

"Steve" wrote in message
news

Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -

=================================


John Gilmore's isolation began July 4, 2002, when he strolled to the
Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his
ticket.

The gate agent asked for his ID.

Gilmore asked her why.

It is the law, she said.

Gilmore asked to see the law.

Nobody could produce a copy. The regulation that mandates ID at
airports is Sensitive Security Information. The law is unavailable for
inspection.

"Are they saying we can't travel without identity papers? If that's
true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we
want to introduce required identity papers in our society, rather than
trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations that
say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said.

Gilmore is grounded. He cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can
he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or clear security in
the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard.

Utterly and completely untrue.

TSA will clear passengers without picture ID, though they will have to
submit to supplemental screening.

I've never, not once, been asked for picture ID when checking into hotels --
credit card, yes, ID, no.

I'm an attorney -- I've never been in a courthouse anywhere in the country,
state or federal, that required ID of any kind.

There's plenty to be unhappy about with security checks at airports, but
articles that are simply wrong, like this one, add nothing to the debate.

snip


Gilmore's famous visit to two airline ticket counters in the Bay Area
was charted out. He checked in with his lawyer. He kept notes. He
booked a flight from Oakland to Washington DC, where he planned to
drop in on the offices of his member of congress to convey his growing
concern about the amount of data the government is gathering from and
about its citizens.

I live in the Bay Area. My wife has forgotten her ID when we've flown out
of SFO and was allowed to fly. She received extra screening -- that's all.



His reason for travel, he would later say, was "to petition the
government for redress." That added First Amendment issues to a
Constitutional exercise that would also turn on the amendments against
unreasonable search and seizure and the right to assemble and petition
the government for redress of grievances.

No, it didn't "add First Amendment issues." Checking ID has nothing,
repeat, NOTHING to do with the First Amendment.

snip


They reached a strange agreement for an argument about personal
privacy - in lieu of showing ID, Gilmore would consent to an
extra-close search, putting up with a pat-down in order to keep his
personal identity to himself. He was wanded, patted down and sent
along.

Exactly as I said -- no ID needed.

In article , PTravel
wrote:

€ "Steve" wrote in message
€ news €
€ Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -
€
€ =================================
€
€
€ John Gilmore's isolation began July 4, 2002, when he strolled to the
€ Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his
€ ticket.
€
€ The gate agent asked for his ID.
€
€ Gilmore asked her why.
€
€ It is the law, she said.
€
€ Gilmore asked to see the law.
€
€ Nobody could produce a copy. The regulation that mandates ID at
€ airports is Sensitive Security Information. The law is unavailable for
€ inspection.
€
€ "Are they saying we can't travel without identity papers? If that's
€ true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we
€ want to introduce required identity papers in our society, rather than
€ trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations that
€ say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said.
€
€ Gilmore is grounded. He cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can
€ he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or clear security in
€ the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard.
€
€ Utterly and completely untrue.
€
€ TSA will clear passengers without picture ID, though they will have to
€ submit to supplemental screening.
€
€ I've never, not once, been asked for picture ID when checking into hotels --
€ credit card, yes, ID, no.
€

??????

I'm asked all the time. If nothing else, as verification that it's my
credit card.

I don't drive, by choice and physical condition, and my driver's
license is expired. Some screeners don't blink when I show it, others
try to hassle, insisting not only on a "government ID," but a "current"
one. I counter that I am not driving the plane and that photo and
name are still me.

As backup I have a faculty photo ID from a state university. Only one
screener tried to say it was not a "government ID." I said, "Looky
right here," and pointed to the state name and state seal, and
governor's name, then asked, "Doesn't a Governor outrank a Secretary of
State?" I got through.

I related that story at a social gathering where one of the guests was
a city police officer. He said he shows his folder with police ID and
badge, which confuses them and makes them nervous -- occasionally it
is objected to. One time, so he said, they pulled him aside for the
fullest pat down search, and he snarled, "You touch me or further
detain me and I will arrest you here and now for assault on an officer
of the law." As he tells it he was immediately let through as they
rushed to help lift his bags off the conveyor belt. I wish I could
have seen that.

At the boarding gate, one more ID check (which they used to do for a
short time), same badge. Nervous ticket agent even forgot to take his
ticket. He handed it to a surprised flight attendant upon entering the
airplane. and said, "You might want to give this to your colleague back
there."

This whole system is a joke.

"JimL" wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't drive, by choice and physical condition, and my driver's
license is expired. Some screeners don't blink when I show it, others
try to hassle, insisting not only on a "government ID," but a "current"
one. I counter that I am not driving the plane and that photo and
name are still me.

The only time you have to worry, is if your Birth Certificate has an
expiration date.

This whole system is a joke.

AMEN

"Alan Street" wrote in message
...
In article , PTravel
wrote:

? "Steve" wrote in message
? news ?
? Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -
?
? =================================
?
?
? John Gilmore's isolation began July 4, 2002, when he strolled to the
? Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his
? ticket.
?
? The gate agent asked for his ID.
?
? Gilmore asked her why.
?
? It is the law, she said.
?
? Gilmore asked to see the law.
?
? Nobody could produce a copy. The regulation that mandates ID at
? airports is Sensitive Security Information. The law is unavailable for
? inspection.
?
? "Are they saying we can't travel without identity papers? If that's
? true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we
? want to introduce required identity papers in our society, rather than
? trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations that
? say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said.
?
? Gilmore is grounded. He cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can
? he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or clear security in
? the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard.
?
? Utterly and completely untrue.
?
? TSA will clear passengers without picture ID, though they will have to
? submit to supplemental screening.
?
? I've never, not once, been asked for picture ID when checking into
hotels --
? credit card, yes, ID, no.
?

??????

I'm asked all the time. If nothing else, as verification that it's my
credit card.

Really? Where do you stay? I've never been asked, not once, at Marriotts,
Westins and Hyatts.

"Alan Street" wrote in message
...
In article , PTravel
wrote:

? "Steve" wrote in message
? news ?
? Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -
?
? =================================
?
?
? John Gilmore's isolation began July 4, 2002, when he strolled to the
? Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his
? ticket.
?
? The gate agent asked for his ID.
?
? Gilmore asked her why.
?
? It is the law, she said.
?
? Gilmore asked to see the law.
?
? Nobody could produce a copy. The regulation that mandates ID at
? airports is Sensitive Security Information. The law is unavailable for
? inspection.
?
? "Are they saying we can't travel without identity papers? If that's
? true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we
? want to introduce required identity papers in our society, rather than
? trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations that
? say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said.
?
? Gilmore is grounded. He cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can
? he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or clear security in
? the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard.
?
? Utterly and completely untrue.
?
? TSA will clear passengers without picture ID, though they will have to
? submit to supplemental screening.
?
? I've never, not once, been asked for picture ID when checking into
hotels --
? credit card, yes, ID, no.
?

??????

I'm asked all the time. If nothing else, as verification that it's my
credit card.

Really? Where do you stay? I've never been asked, not once, at Marriotts,
Westins and Hyatts.

In article , PTravel
wrote:

€ "Alan Street" wrote in message
€ ...
€ In article , PTravel
€ wrote:
€
€ ? "Steve" wrote in message
€ ? news € ?
€ ? Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -
€ ?
€ ? =================================
€ ?
€ ?
€ ? John Gilmore's isolation began July 4, 2002, when he strolled to the
€ ? Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his
€ ? ticket.
€ ?
€ ? The gate agent asked for his ID.
€ ?
€ ? Gilmore asked her why.
€ ?
€ ? It is the law, she said.
€ ?
€ ? Gilmore asked to see the law.
€ ?
€ ? Nobody could produce a copy. The regulation that mandates ID at
€ ? airports is Sensitive Security Information. The law is unavailable for
€ ? inspection.
€ ?
€ ? "Are they saying we can't travel without identity papers? If that's
€ ? true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we
€ ? want to introduce required identity papers in our society, rather than
€ ? trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations that
€ ? say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said.
€ ?
€ ? Gilmore is grounded. He cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can
€ ? he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or clear security in
€ ? the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard.
€ ?
€ ? Utterly and completely untrue.
€ ?
€ ? TSA will clear passengers without picture ID, though they will have to
€ ? submit to supplemental screening.
€ ?
€ ? I've never, not once, been asked for picture ID when checking into
€ hotels --
€ ? credit card, yes, ID, no.
€ ?
€
€ ??????
€
€ I'm asked all the time. If nothing else, as verification that it's my
€ credit card.
€
€ Really? Where do you stay? I've never been asked, not once, at Marriotts,
€ Westins and Hyatts.
€
€

In the US, this year:

San Jose Marriott
Peabody Marriott
Hilton Alexandria
Sheraton BWI

"PTravel" wrote in message
...

"Alan Street" wrote in message
...
In article , PTravel
wrote:

? "Steve" wrote in message
? news ?
? Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -
?
? =================================
?
?
? John Gilmore's isolation began July 4, 2002, when he strolled to the
? Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his
? ticket.
?
? The gate agent asked for his ID.
?
? Gilmore asked her why.
?
? It is the law, she said.
?
? Gilmore asked to see the law.
?
? Nobody could produce a copy. The regulation that mandates ID at
? airports is Sensitive Security Information. The law is unavailable
for
? inspection.
?
? "Are they saying we can't travel without identity papers? If that's
? true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we
? want to introduce required identity papers in our society, rather
than
? trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations
that
? say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said.
?
? Gilmore is grounded. He cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can
? he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or clear security
in
? the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard.
?
? Utterly and completely untrue.
?
? TSA will clear passengers without picture ID, though they will have to
? submit to supplemental screening.
?
? I've never, not once, been asked for picture ID when checking into
hotels --
? credit card, yes, ID, no.
?

??????

I'm asked all the time. If nothing else, as verification that it's my
credit card.

Really? Where do you stay? I've never been asked, not once, at
Marriotts,
Westins and Hyatts.

I'm never asked for ID with my credit card, and it's not something I like.
My Credit Card numbers are hyjacked at least twice a year during travel. I
praise the people who ask me for ID.

JimL wrote:

I don't drive, by choice and physical condition, and my driver's
license is expired. Some screeners don't blink when I show it, others
try to hassle, insisting not only on a "government ID," but a "current"
one. I counter that I am not driving the plane and that photo and
name are still me.


Nevertheless technically speaking an expired driver's license is not
acceptable as a *current* valid ID...they have a right to refuse it.

You need to go to your local Secretary of State's driver's license facility
and get a state - issued ID card, it's only a few bucks and is universally
accepted as a valid ID...I don't drive either.

Supposedly an expired US passport can sometimes be used for an ID, though in
a pinch I certainly wouldn't want to try it...

--
Best
Greg