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Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 27th, 2004, 04:39 PM
Tim Kroesen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

R.T.E. America-basher #2 checks in...

WTF is with your brainless knee-jerk obsession with top-post
'correction' BTW...?

Tim K

"David Horne" wrote in message
news:1gg1s3w.1k2g9b51pcmnbzN%this_address_is_for_s ...
[top-post fixed]

Tim Kroesen wrote:

"Sjoerd" wrote in message
...


I am not so sure. These soldiers don't seem to be the most
intelligent that America has to offer. It is probably more like "if
this is Tuesday's war it must be Iraq".


If it's any day of the week you can expect anti-American crap from
Sjoerd too...


Good grief then, what are you saying- that they _were_ the most
intelligent America has to offer?

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk


  #22  
Old June 27th, 2004, 04:45 PM
David Horne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

Tim Kroesen wrote:

R.T.E. America-basher #2 checks in...


I'm not calling anyone an American-basher in this thread, but I'm
certainly anything _but_. I lived there for 11 years and loved it. My
partner not only agrees with every criticism I'd make about US policies
etc., but is probably even more against them in some respects. He's a US
citizen. I note you didn't answer the question.

WTF is with your brainless knee-jerk obsession with top-post
'correction' BTW...?


I had to physically move your post below his (as both were pertinent to
my follow-up) for it to make any sense. Look, I'm not interested in
teaching _you_ how to post properly when you play on usenet. Don't take
my word for it- read up on the subject- but you're not going to win
many admirers for posting the wrong way up.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
  #23  
Old June 27th, 2004, 05:39 PM
devil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 15:19:40 +0000, Tim Kroesen wrote:


Then of course where the Two ladies at Keukenhof whom I ID'd as American
Mennonites (Amish) via their garb; while everyone else there thought
them local workers 'in costume'...g


I don't think Amish and Mennonites are the same thing? BTW, how could you
tell they were American?


  #24  
Old June 27th, 2004, 05:43 PM
Aramis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

I guess you could say I've interviewed a few Canadians on the topic - since
I am one, and I have travelled to Europe 11 times, 5 as a backpacker in my
"youth" - ahem.

Of course Europeans can tell and Aussie or Kiwi from a North American, but
unless you have a pronounced Southern drawl, a Canadian will almost always
be presumed to be an American at first glance. I'm quite good at sourcing
accents but many of my friends and family can't source an Aussie from a
Kiwi, forma South African, nor can they differentiate different UK accents,
so I assume there are a number of Europeans who can't tell any North
American accent from another.

If population tends translate into travels Europeans will see 10 times as
many Americans as Canadians. It is only natural to generalize based on those
kinds of real life encounters.

You can count a far greater number of truly generous encounters in Europe,
as a Canadian, if the people you are interacting with know you are a
Canadian. It's not absolute, nothing is, but I have had dozens of encounters
where initial aloofness dissipated once the individual I was interacting
with asked, or figured out that I was a Canadian.

If you would like some examples;

- A trucker in the Netherlands turned around to pick me up after he saw the
flag on my backpack.

- I have never had to answer a single question crossing a border when
displaying my passport - American backpackers I have been travelling with
had to empty their backpacks and were questioned privately on several
occasions.

It even extends beyond Europeans -once when I hooked up with some Kiwis in
Ireland and was invited back to their London flat for a few days, one of
their flat mates was particularly cold towards me. He wouldn't even look at,
or speak to me as we piled in the VW to head to a pub the first night I was
there. 10 minutes after we arrived at the pub one of the other folks asks me
something about Canada and this distant guy gets a quizzical look on his
face, comes over, has me confirm I am Canadian and then apologizes for his
behaviour because he thought I was a Yank. After that we drank and snag for
days - ah Europe and youth!.

The fallout from American foreign policy and cultural myopia is a fact. It
affects some people more than others, and may not at all dictate the way
some people react to tourists. It is enough of a factor, overall to be
noticed by those who are most likely to get mistaken for an American, eh?




"Pete" wrote in message
link.net...
No, it's the distinction from the American thing.


Really? Have you interviewed a significant number of them to verify
your claim? Australians do not need a flag to separate themselves
from Americans as their accent is quite different.


Pete




  #25  
Old June 27th, 2004, 05:47 PM
Aramis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

Yoo doon't knoow woot yoor tooking aboot Mikey!

I don't get that distinction either;

I hear canadians say "abowt" (as in "bow" to the Queen - heheh theres the
Colonial in me coming out)
and Americans "abawt" (as in baa baa black sheep, os something
just a little less severe than that)

"Mike O'sullivan" wrote in message
...

"Pete" wrote in message
link.net...
Why do they insist on putting their flags onto their backpacks and

I assure you that almost no European will be able to distinguish between
the accents of Canadians & Americans. Lots of Canadians sound just
like Midwestern Americans except for the occasional difference in "out"
("oot") as in "about."


?? That vowel sound is nothing like that!




  #26  
Old June 27th, 2004, 06:19 PM
Cyril & Sandy Alberga
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

Aramis wrote:
I guess you could say I've interviewed a few Canadians on the topic - since
I am one, and I have travelled to Europe 11 times, 5 as a backpacker in my
"youth" - ahem.

Of course Europeans can tell and Aussie or Kiwi from a North American, but
unless you have a pronounced Southern drawl, a Canadian will almost always
be presumed to be an American at first glance. I'm quite good at sourcing
accents but many of my friends and family can't source an Aussie from a
Kiwi, forma South African, nor can they differentiate different UK accents,
so I assume there are a number of Europeans who can't tell any North
American accent from another.

If population tends translate into travels Europeans will see 10 times as
many Americans as Canadians. It is only natural to generalize based on those
kinds of real life encounters.

You can count a far greater number of truly generous encounters in Europe,
as a Canadian, if the people you are interacting with know you are a
Canadian. It's not absolute, nothing is, but I have had dozens of encounters
where initial aloofness dissipated once the individual I was interacting
with asked, or figured out that I was a Canadian.

If you would like some examples;

- A trucker in the Netherlands turned around to pick me up after he saw the
flag on my backpack.

- I have never had to answer a single question crossing a border when
displaying my passport - American backpackers I have been travelling with
had to empty their backpacks and were questioned privately on several
occasions.

It even extends beyond Europeans -once when I hooked up with some Kiwis in
Ireland and was invited back to their London flat for a few days, one of
their flat mates was particularly cold towards me. He wouldn't even look at,
or speak to me as we piled in the VW to head to a pub the first night I was
there. 10 minutes after we arrived at the pub one of the other folks asks me
something about Canada and this distant guy gets a quizzical look on his
face, comes over, has me confirm I am Canadian and then apologizes for his
behaviour because he thought I was a Yank. After that we drank and snag for
days - ah Europe and youth!.

The fallout from American foreign policy and cultural myopia is a fact. It
affects some people more than others, and may not at all dictate the way
some people react to tourists. It is enough of a factor, overall to be
noticed by those who are most likely to get mistaken for an American, eh?



Well, my wife and I have traveled fairly extensively since 1959
(actually, she started as a bicycle leader for American Youth Hostels in
Europe in 1954 (or was it '53?)). We have been in Europe a fair number
of times, including during the past few years, as well as in Japan,
Argentina, Jamaica, Russia, Mongolia, Viet Nam, Australia and New
Zealand, just to name a few of our recent trips. We have never hidden
our country of origin (although we tend to be mistaken for Canadians
until we disabuse people of that idea -- nothing against Canadian, we
love traveling in Canada too). And we have had many, many special
things happen, and few if any negative ones.

For example, we were in Japan last month, and took a day trip to a town
(Mikawa, near Kanazawa) for a Shinto festival. I was invited to pull
one of the floats for a couple of blocks, and then we were invited into
someones house, where he was entertaining dozens of relatives, friends
and associates. They even put on an impromptu tea ceremony for us, and
tried to talk us into staying the night.

We have been dragged to a governor's tea in Simla, invited into a home
in Istafahan (pre revolution, admittedly), given brandy "on the house"
in a small restaurant in France, and gotten all sorts of help in Oz and
Kiwi-land, etc.

I could go on, but I'm not sure that being from the States keeps you
from having nice things happen.

Cyril Alberga
  #27  
Old June 27th, 2004, 06:27 PM
Ian Phillips
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

Interesting thread. Being Canadian, there is only one place where I wore a
Canadian pin a nd that was Japan and I might wear one again when I go to
China this fall.
I do not like to advertise my nationality as I like to pretend I am one of
the people. I have been asked directions in various languages from Flemish
to Russian for various things which I find most amusing.
It is important to me to speak at least a few words of the language where I
go and hope I do not look to much like a tourist.
If someone thought I was American I would say I was Canadian in the
language of the place I was in. Wonder what that is in Chinese?
I do not think you should advertise where you come from. I walked by this
guy going to the train station in Cannes with a Columbia ( as in university
shirt) and a USA cap and yes he did look very American.
Yes I have been mistaken for American too. However even I find that after
all this Iraq stuff that maybe it is time for myself to defend my
neighbours to the south not the Bush government but the spirit of the
American people as individuals. They are a great people but all of us in
this world need to know that our values and institutions may just not work
in other countries.
Alas perhaps that is why Tim Hortons has not expanded to Peru :-)
Happy travels to all and may we find ourselves in a more peaceful world some
day.

Joe Canuck


"devil" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:35:07 -0400, zzyyxx wrote:

Why do they insist on putting their flags onto their backpacks and

whatnot?
I'm an American who's done quite a bit of traveling in Europe in the

last
couple years and haven't experienced any problems with people disliking

or
being rude to me. So why do they feel the need to proclaim that they're

not
American? Like you wouldn't be able to tell from their accents! It's

kind of
insulting to me too, because they don't want to be mistaken for an

American,
like there's something wrong with being American.


Isn't there?

:-)



  #28  
Old June 27th, 2004, 07:44 PM
Tim Kroesen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

Doors opened, all manner of consumables poured, etc for this American...
The only comments I heard on my nationality was heard several times;
'you speak such wonderful English' surprisingly was it; as compared to
the heavy accent many English speaking Europeans find difficult to
understand of those from England, Australia, Southern US, etc. People
then became downright friendly and engaging whence they learned I was
there for family history perusal. So clearly a Midwestern American with
a 'European' (Dutch) name is as well regarded as his own attitude...

Tim K

"Cyril & Sandy Alberga" wrote in message
...
Aramis wrote:
I guess you could say I've interviewed a few Canadians on the

topic - since
I am one, and I have travelled to Europe 11 times, 5 as a backpacker

in my
"youth" - ahem.

Of course Europeans can tell and Aussie or Kiwi from a North

American, but
unless you have a pronounced Southern drawl, a Canadian will almost

always
be presumed to be an American at first glance. I'm quite good at

sourcing
accents but many of my friends and family can't source an Aussie

from a
Kiwi, forma South African, nor can they differentiate different UK

accents,
so I assume there are a number of Europeans who can't tell any North
American accent from another.

If population tends translate into travels Europeans will see 10

times as
many Americans as Canadians. It is only natural to generalize based

on those
kinds of real life encounters.

You can count a far greater number of truly generous encounters in

Europe,
as a Canadian, if the people you are interacting with know you are a
Canadian. It's not absolute, nothing is, but I have had dozens of

encounters
where initial aloofness dissipated once the individual I was

interacting
with asked, or figured out that I was a Canadian.

If you would like some examples;

- A trucker in the Netherlands turned around to pick me up after he

saw the
flag on my backpack.

- I have never had to answer a single question crossing a border

when
displaying my passport - American backpackers I have been travelling

with
had to empty their backpacks and were questioned privately on

several
occasions.

It even extends beyond Europeans -once when I hooked up with some

Kiwis in
Ireland and was invited back to their London flat for a few days,

one of
their flat mates was particularly cold towards me. He wouldn't even

look at,
or speak to me as we piled in the VW to head to a pub the first

night I was
there. 10 minutes after we arrived at the pub one of the other folks

asks me
something about Canada and this distant guy gets a quizzical look on

his
face, comes over, has me confirm I am Canadian and then apologizes

for his
behaviour because he thought I was a Yank. After that we drank and

snag for
days - ah Europe and youth!.

The fallout from American foreign policy and cultural myopia is a

fact. It
affects some people more than others, and may not at all dictate the

way
some people react to tourists. It is enough of a factor, overall to

be
noticed by those who are most likely to get mistaken for an

American, eh?



Well, my wife and I have traveled fairly extensively since 1959
(actually, she started as a bicycle leader for American Youth Hostels

in
Europe in 1954 (or was it '53?)). We have been in Europe a fair

number
of times, including during the past few years, as well as in Japan,
Argentina, Jamaica, Russia, Mongolia, Viet Nam, Australia and New
Zealand, just to name a few of our recent trips. We have never hidden
our country of origin (although we tend to be mistaken for Canadians
until we disabuse people of that idea -- nothing against Canadian, we
love traveling in Canada too). And we have had many, many special
things happen, and few if any negative ones.

For example, we were in Japan last month, and took a day trip to a

town
(Mikawa, near Kanazawa) for a Shinto festival. I was invited to pull
one of the floats for a couple of blocks, and then we were invited

into
someones house, where he was entertaining dozens of relatives, friends
and associates. They even put on an impromptu tea ceremony for us,

and
tried to talk us into staying the night.

We have been dragged to a governor's tea in Simla, invited into a home
in Istafahan (pre revolution, admittedly), given brandy "on the house"
in a small restaurant in France, and gotten all sorts of help in Oz

and
Kiwi-land, etc.

I could go on, but I'm not sure that being from the States keeps you
from having nice things happen.

Cyril Alberga


  #29  
Old June 27th, 2004, 07:55 PM
Tim Kroesen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

I post on Usenet for "admirers"...? g

Appears I got a dedicated one...G

Tim K

"David Horne" wrote in message
news:1gg1syv.5il1joao8h5sN%this_address_is_for_spa ...
Tim Kroesen wrote:

R.T.E. America-basher #2 checks in...


I'm not calling anyone an American-basher in this thread, but I'm
certainly anything _but_. I lived there for 11 years and loved it. My
partner not only agrees with every criticism I'd make about US

policies
etc., but is probably even more against them in some respects. He's a

US
citizen. I note you didn't answer the question.

WTF is with your brainless knee-jerk obsession with top-post
'correction' BTW...?


I had to physically move your post below his (as both were pertinent

to
my follow-up) for it to make any sense. Look, I'm not interested in
teaching _you_ how to post properly when you play on usenet. Don't

take
my word for it- read up on the subject- but you're not going to win
many admirers for posting the wrong way up.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk


  #30  
Old June 27th, 2004, 08:05 PM
Tim Kroesen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies and their flags

Funny; the guy in the Chicago Bulls sweatshirt I approached to asked
directions of in Roma was actually a native that spoke no English... He
lit right up when I said 'Cleveland, Ohio USA' though, responding with '
Ohh, Labron James!'...g

Tim K

"Ian Phillips" wrote in message
news:lsDDc.875855$Pk3.482899@pd7tw1no...
Interesting thread. Being Canadian, there is only one place where I

wore a
Canadian pin a nd that was Japan and I might wear one again when I go

to
China this fall.
I do not like to advertise my nationality as I like to pretend I am

one of
the people. I have been asked directions in various languages from

Flemish
to Russian for various things which I find most amusing.
It is important to me to speak at least a few words of the language

where I
go and hope I do not look to much like a tourist.
If someone thought I was American I would say I was Canadian in the
language of the place I was in. Wonder what that is in Chinese?
I do not think you should advertise where you come from. I walked by

this
guy going to the train station in Cannes with a Columbia ( as in

university
shirt) and a USA cap and yes he did look very American.
Yes I have been mistaken for American too. However even I find that

after
all this Iraq stuff that maybe it is time for myself to defend my
neighbours to the south not the Bush government but the spirit of the
American people as individuals. They are a great people but all of us

in
this world need to know that our values and institutions may just not

work
in other countries.
Alas perhaps that is why Tim Hortons has not expanded to Peru :-)
Happy travels to all and may we find ourselves in a more peaceful

world some
day.

Joe Canuck


"devil" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:35:07 -0400, zzyyxx wrote:

Why do they insist on putting their flags onto their backpacks and

whatnot?
I'm an American who's done quite a bit of traveling in Europe in

the
last
couple years and haven't experienced any problems with people

disliking
or
being rude to me. So why do they feel the need to proclaim that

they're
not
American? Like you wouldn't be able to tell from their accents!

It's
kind of
insulting to me too, because they don't want to be mistaken for an

American,
like there's something wrong with being American.


Isn't there?

:-)




 




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