Carry-ons (Opinions?)

"PTRAVEL" wrote in message ...
"Jonathan Smith" wrote in message
m...
"PTRAVEL" wrote in message
...
"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Evelyn
C.
Leeper
says...

Mark Hewitt wrote:

"Icono Clast" wrote in message
om...

"Jim Davis Sr." wrote:


I don't understand why people burden themselves on the long walks
to
and from the gangways and then trouble their fellow passengers by
blocking an aisle. I just don't get it. When they're a bit early
have
have to go to the toilet, they ask strangers to "watch my bag" not
knowing whether that stranger is going to disappear with it. I just
don't get it.


Because quite often I've had to wait in excess of 40 minutes after
the
plane
has landed, before my bag actually shows up. If I could get away
with
just
hang baggage when I go on a flight. I would do that!

If you're on a business trip and the time is critical - then pack
lighter.
Wear
clothing passable for your business in case there is a problem. If
you're
moving or have acquired some largish items, ship stuff. If you're
travelling on
pleasure, the first step to pleasure would be to learn how to relax
and
stop
counting minutes at the baggage carousel.


Or because twice the airlines have failed to send my luggage on the
same
flight as me.

Twice out of how many flights? And did they or did they not get the
bags
to you
within a day?

I mean, good grief. These complaints are just control-phreaky "I
demand a
glitch-free life and I wanna be first" stuff. The large number of
self-appointed carry-on exceptions (and the resultant scrable for
overhead,
underfoot, and garment bag space) *is* impacting other pax. PDA's,
music
players, and cameras fit in largish purses and soft briefcases (for
the
latter,
with laptop). Medicine and magazines too. One more of carry-on size
handles a
weekend's worth of stuff (say - how 'bout packing one of those such
that
you're
covered for a baggage-loading disaster and checking the rest!).

Spoken like a true non-business traveler. Why in the world should
anyone
risk their enterprise and forgo their _legal_ carryon because you don't
approve?

I have to wear suits for my business and, no, I won't spend hours in
plane
wearing one because you don't like carryons. I, personally, have had my
bags delayed -- 4+ days in each case -- twice out of the four times I
checked bags on a business trip. I also carry a laptop (with associated
electronics), PDA, cellphone and charger, plus critical documents that I
need when I get there.

It absolutely amazes me that you would be criticize someone who falls
within
the _airline_determined_ requirement for carryon, which inconveniences
no
one except, perhaps, your personal sense of aesthetics.

It is not the person within the guidelines of a 21 inch rollaboard (51
inch total dimension)

On some airlines -- different airlines have different restrictions.

Continental. On BA, for example, it is a lot less in economy. AA has
a 41 inch limit. ALL US airlines have the one plus personal limit -
and blame the FAA/TSA.

and a SINGLE personal item (briefcase, purse, OR
- not and - SMALL backpack).

The 24 inch rollaboard plus the computer case, plus the small duffle
plus the purse is NOT within the guidelines.

I have a 24" Tumi suitcase. There is no way that this could remotely be
considered a carry-on. Standard rollaboards are 21" or 22".

Well duh. My point exactly.

A rollaboard plus a
computer plus a purse is not. A rollaboard plus a garment bag plus a
briefcase is NOT. A rollaboard plus a purse plus a Macy's shopping
bag plus a computer bag is NOT.

Obviously. When did I imply otherwise?

Did I say you did? I was pointing out what I observed of business
travelers in first class on a flight on Friday brough aboard as
carryon.


These observations were made last Friday on a Continental flight in
first class.

I rarely, if ever, see business people abuse the carryone restrictions.

I see it ALL the time. It is most apparent with women business
travelers but men are not immune from carryonitis.

It
is almost always the casual flyer who either doesn't know, or doesn't care
about, the restrictions on carryon.

Your observational abilities in the past have been challenged.\


Added to that - there was little evidence of the one above, one below
etiquette.

Not quite sure what you're saying here,

"If you have two carryons, please place the larger one above and the
smaller one under the seat in front of you.?"

Do you do this, Paul?

but since you're respond to my post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.

Families with young children are allowed an extra piece of carryon
PLUS a car seat.
For example - American says:

"Additional items that will be allowed above and beyond the
restrictions listed above include:
Outer garments such as coats/wraps/hats
Approved safety seat for lap or ticketed child
Umbrella stroller for lap or ticketed child
Diaper bag for lap or ticketed child
Book or newspaper
Bistro sized or smaller bag of food that is consumable
Devices such as wheelchairs, walkers, etc.
Therapeutic oxygen provided by the airline"one infant article such as
a .


Continental allows one ADDITIONAL item for an infant/toddler -
"...collapsible stroller, a diaper bag or a government approved child
seat."

And now it gets personal - you want to blame everything on the
families with children yet you tell us how you always travel in first
class. How does this happen? I haven't seen a family in first class
in quite some time and when I do it is hardly a gaggle of them . How
can families with children be taking your first class bin space? You
board first, you sit in first, and you get off first.

I fly again tomorrow - want pictures of carryon toting business
flyers?

js

PTRAVEL wrote:
"Jonathan Smith" wrote in message
m...

"PTRAVEL" wrote in message

...

"Banty" wrote in message
...

In article , Evelyn

C.

Leeper

says...

Mark Hewitt wrote:

"Icono Clast" wrote in message
ogle.com...

"Jim Davis Sr." wrote:

I don't understand why people burden themselves on the long walks to
and from the gangways and then trouble their fellow passengers by
blocking an aisle. I just don't get it. When they're a bit early have
have to go to the toilet, they ask strangers to "watch my bag" not
knowing whether that stranger is going to disappear with it. I just
don't get it.

Because quite often I've had to wait in excess of 40 minutes after the
plane has landed, before my bag actually shows up. If I could get away
with just
hang baggage when I go on a flight. I would do that!

If you're on a business trip and the time is critical - then pack lighter.
Wear clothing passable for your business in case there is a problem. If you're
moving or have acquired some largish items, ship stuff. If you're travelling on
pleasure, the first step to pleasure would be to learn how to relax and stop
counting minutes at the baggage carousel.

Or because twice the airlines have failed to send my luggage on the

same

flight as me.

Twice out of how many flights? And did they or did they not get the

bags

to you

within a day?

I mean, good grief. These complaints are just control-phreaky "I

demand a

glitch-free life and I wanna be first" stuff. The large number of
self-appointed carry-on exceptions (and the resultant scrable for

overhead,

underfoot, and garment bag space) *is* impacting other pax. PDA's,

music

players, and cameras fit in largish purses and soft briefcases (for

the

latter,

with laptop). Medicine and magazines too. One more of carry-on size

handles a

weekend's worth of stuff (say - how 'bout packing one of those such

that

you're

covered for a baggage-loading disaster and checking the rest!).

Spoken like a true non-business traveler. Why in the world should

anyone

risk their enterprise and forgo their _legal_ carryon because you don't
approve?

I have to wear suits for my business and, no, I won't spend hours in

plane

wearing one because you don't like carryons. I, personally, have had my
bags delayed -- 4+ days in each case -- twice out of the four times I
checked bags on a business trip. I also carry a laptop (with associated
electronics), PDA, cellphone and charger, plus critical documents that I
need when I get there.

It absolutely amazes me that you would be criticize someone who falls

within

the _airline_determined_ requirement for carryon, which inconveniences

no

one except, perhaps, your personal sense of aesthetics.

It is not the person within the guidelines of a 21 inch rollaboard (51
inch total dimension)


On some airlines -- different airlines have different restrictions.


and a SINGLE personal item (briefcase, purse, OR
- not and - SMALL backpack).

The 24 inch rollaboard plus the computer case, plus the small duffle
plus the purse is NOT within the guidelines.


I have a 24" Tumi suitcase. There is no way that this could remotely be
considered a carry-on. Standard rollaboards are 21" or 22".


A rollaboard plus a
computer plus a purse is not. A rollaboard plus a garment bag plus a
briefcase is NOT. A rollaboard plus a purse plus a Macy's shopping
bag plus a computer bag is NOT.


Obviously. When did I imply otherwise?

These observations were made last Friday on a Continental flight in
first class.

I rarely, if ever, see business people abuse the carryone restrictions. It
is almost always the casual flyer who either doesn't know, or doesn't care
about, the restrictions on carryon.

Added to that - there was little evidence of the one above, one below
etiquette.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but since you're respond to my post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.
js

I've rarely seen families with young children with more than the
allowable amount of carry-ons. They usually only have one item per
child and only rarely two. FFM

In article , PTRAVEL says...


I rarely, if ever, see business people abuse the carryone restrictions. It
is almost always the casual flyer who either doesn't know, or doesn't care
about, the restrictions on carryon.


Added to that - there was little evidence of the one above, one below
etiquette.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but since you're respond to my post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.


How do you know a business traveller from a "casual flyer"? Dress doesn't
necessarily do it - you yourself just said that you travel in casual clothes.
And in the past you've said IIRC that you often also travel with your wife.
Wouldn't you look a lot like a casual traveller? (Also - consider that a
business traveller who is obvious by dress may be following my advice to dress
in passable dress for business as a contingency against lost baggage, so those
would tend to be just the ones who don't try to carry everything on.)

Laptop possession, lordy knows, doesn't make the distinction anymore either.

I've brought my son on conference trips - can't even tell from that.

So how would you know, to know which group is violating carryons?

Banty

(Miguel Cruz) wrote in message . ..
[snip]
I watched a couple that were not, and they included "bad" words, etc., so
I'm not sure what they were editing out of the others. Anyone know?

Visuals. Sex mostly. You don't have to let your 5 year old wear
the headphones, but it's pretty hard to tell them not to open their
eyes for 2 hours. So the airlines try to edit out visual stuff.
Not sure how they ever show a Bond flick.

In article ,
me wrote:

I'm not sure what they were editing out of the others. Anyone know?

Visuals. Sex mostly. You don't have to let your 5 year old wear
the headphones, but it's pretty hard to tell them not to open their
eyes for 2 hours. So the airlines try to edit out visual stuff.
Not sure how they ever show a Bond flick.

I saw _The World Is Not Enough_ on Continental once.

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message ...

"PTRAVEL" wrote in message

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but since you're respond to my post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.

Frank wrote:

I've rarely seen families with young children with more than the
allowable amount of carry-ons. They usually only have one item per
child and only rarely two. FFM

Maybe Paul thinks that the child himself is the carryon.

In article , Jonathan Smith
says...

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message
...

"PTRAVEL" wrote in message

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but since you're respond to my post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.

Frank wrote:

I've rarely seen families with young children with more than the
allowable amount of carry-ons. They usually only have one item per
child and only rarely two. FFM

Maybe Paul thinks that the child himself is the carryon.

It occurs to me that he might be seeing the parent(s) carrying stuff and
forgetting the kids' seats also have a carryon allowance.

Banty

"Jonathan Smith" wrote in message
m...
"PTRAVEL" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Smith" wrote in message
m...
"PTRAVEL" wrote in message
...
"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Evelyn
C.
Leeper
says...

Mark Hewitt wrote:

"Icono Clast" wrote in message
om...

"Jim Davis Sr." wrote:


I don't understand why people burden themselves on the long
walks
to
and from the gangways and then trouble their fellow passengers
by
blocking an aisle. I just don't get it. When they're a bit
early
have
have to go to the toilet, they ask strangers to "watch my bag"
not
knowing whether that stranger is going to disappear with it. I
just
don't get it.


Because quite often I've had to wait in excess of 40 minutes
after
the
plane
has landed, before my bag actually shows up. If I could get
away
with
just
hang baggage when I go on a flight. I would do that!

If you're on a business trip and the time is critical - then pack
lighter.
Wear
clothing passable for your business in case there is a problem.
If
you're
moving or have acquired some largish items, ship stuff. If you're
travelling on
pleasure, the first step to pleasure would be to learn how to
relax
and
stop
counting minutes at the baggage carousel.


Or because twice the airlines have failed to send my luggage on
the
same
flight as me.

Twice out of how many flights? And did they or did they not get
the
bags
to you
within a day?

I mean, good grief. These complaints are just control-phreaky "I
demand a
glitch-free life and I wanna be first" stuff. The large number of
self-appointed carry-on exceptions (and the resultant scrable for
overhead,
underfoot, and garment bag space) *is* impacting other pax.
PDA's,
music
players, and cameras fit in largish purses and soft briefcases
(for
the
latter,
with laptop). Medicine and magazines too. One more of carry-on
size
handles a
weekend's worth of stuff (say - how 'bout packing one of those
such
that
you're
covered for a baggage-loading disaster and checking the rest!).

Spoken like a true non-business traveler. Why in the world should
anyone
risk their enterprise and forgo their _legal_ carryon because you
don't
approve?

I have to wear suits for my business and, no, I won't spend hours in
plane
wearing one because you don't like carryons. I, personally, have
had my
bags delayed -- 4+ days in each case -- twice out of the four times
I
checked bags on a business trip. I also carry a laptop (with
associated
electronics), PDA, cellphone and charger, plus critical documents
that I
need when I get there.

It absolutely amazes me that you would be criticize someone who
falls
within
the _airline_determined_ requirement for carryon, which
inconveniences
no
one except, perhaps, your personal sense of aesthetics.

It is not the person within the guidelines of a 21 inch rollaboard (51
inch total dimension)

On some airlines -- different airlines have different restrictions.

Continental. On BA, for example, it is a lot less in economy. AA has
a 41 inch limit. ALL US airlines have the one plus personal limit -
and blame the FAA/TSA.

Also, some airlines specify three linear dimensions for max carryon size,
some only length + width + height, whereas others use both limitations.



and a SINGLE personal item (briefcase, purse, OR
- not and - SMALL backpack).

The 24 inch rollaboard plus the computer case, plus the small duffle
plus the purse is NOT within the guidelines.

I have a 24" Tumi suitcase. There is no way that this could remotely be
considered a carry-on. Standard rollaboards are 21" or 22".

Well duh. My point exactly.

Well, yes, but in your example the 24" bag, alone, would have precluded
carryon -- the other stuff wouldn't have mattered one way or another.


A rollaboard plus a
computer plus a purse is not. A rollaboard plus a garment bag plus a
briefcase is NOT. A rollaboard plus a purse plus a Macy's shopping
bag plus a computer bag is NOT.

Obviously. When did I imply otherwise?

Did I say you did? I was pointing out what I observed of business
travelers in first class on a flight on Friday brough aboard as
carryon.


These observations were made last Friday on a Continental flight in
first class.

I rarely, if ever, see business people abuse the carryone restrictions.

I see it ALL the time. It is most apparent with women business
travelers but men are not immune from carryonitis.

That's odd, because most of my travel is on Continental and most of that is
in F.


It
is almost always the casual flyer who either doesn't know, or doesn't
care
about, the restrictions on carryon.

Your observational abilities in the past have been challenged.

By you, yes. However, I observe what I observe, which doesn't coincide
with what you observe.



Added to that - there was little evidence of the one above, one below
etiquette.

Not quite sure what you're saying here,

"If you have two carryons, please place the larger one above and the
smaller one under the seat in front of you.?"

Do you do this, Paul?

Of course, unless (1) I'm sitting in a bulkhead seat, and there is no seat
in front of me, (2) the flight is not full, I'm in my usual window seat and
the aisle (if 2 across) or aisle and window (if 3 across) seats are not
occupied, in which case I might put my carryon under the seat in front of
them, or (3) the plane is wide open and there is more than enough room for
everyone to stow their carryons overhead, in which case I do, too. (2) and
(3) are pretty rare but, coincidently, happened to me on two legs yesterday.


but since you're respond to my post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.

Families with young children are allowed an extra piece of carryon
PLUS a car seat.

Yes, so? What has that to do with what I wrote?

For example - American says:

"Additional items that will be allowed above and beyond the
restrictions listed above include:
Outer garments such as coats/wraps/hats
Approved safety seat for lap or ticketed child
Umbrella stroller for lap or ticketed child
Diaper bag for lap or ticketed child
Book or newspaper
Bistro sized or smaller bag of food that is consumable
Devices such as wheelchairs, walkers, etc.
Therapeutic oxygen provided by the airline"one infant article such as
a .


Continental allows one ADDITIONAL item for an infant/toddler -
"...collapsible stroller, a diaper bag or a government approved child
seat."

You didn't read what I wrote carefully. Here it is again:

I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.

This sentence talks about egregious violators of the rules, not families for
whom there are special rules.


And now it gets personal - you want to blame everything on the
families with children yet you tell us how you always travel in first
class. How does this happen? I haven't seen a family in first class
in quite some time and when I do it is hardly a gaggle of them .

I don't always travel first class. Most of my travel is first class. My
leisure travel is often in coach, as is my business travel on airlines that
don't offer YUP fares. As an example, yesterday I flew to Edmonton on Air
Canada (Zip). Both legs were coach. Tomorrow I return. Both legs will be
coach.

However, that begs the question. Your question assumes families don't fly
in F. That's an incorrect assumption. And, particularly with respect to
Business/First and international Business class, your assumption is way off
the mark.

How
can families with children be taking your first class bin space? You
board first, you sit in first, and you get off first.


1. I don't always fly in F.
2. Families with young children fly in F.
3. Coach flyers sometimes use the first bin they encounter on boarding, i.e
F bins.

I fly again tomorrow - want pictures of carryon toting business
flyers?

Not particularly.


js

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message
...


snip

I've rarely seen families with young children with more than the
allowable amount of carry-ons. They usually only have one item per
child and only rarely two. FFM

Whereas I have seen it.

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , PTRAVEL says...


I rarely, if ever, see business people abuse the carryone restrictions.
It
is almost always the casual flyer who either doesn't know, or doesn't
care
about, the restrictions on carryon.


Added to that - there was little evidence of the one above, one below
etiquette.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but since you're respond to my
post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.


How do you know a business traveller from a "casual flyer"?

Actually, that's a good point and is the result of some shorthand. What I
should have written is that I rarely see _frequent_ flyers abuse the carryon
rules, as opposed to casual flyers. Since most frequent flyers fly
frequently because their business requires them to, I assumed "business
travellers." However, you have a good point.

Dress doesn't
necessarily do it - you yourself just said that you travel in casual
clothes.

I do, but it's not hard to tell me (or any other frequent flyer) from a
casual flyer. You can tell by how they board (go directly to seat vs. ask
the FA where it is), what they do when they sit down (immediately adjust the
air vs. peer at the light and air controls trying to figure out how to work
them), what they carry (computer bag/wheeled rollaboard/higher-quality vs.
duffel bag,shopping bag,etc.).

And in the past you've said IIRC that you often also travel with your
wife.
Wouldn't you look a lot like a casual traveller?

Why? Because I'm with my wife? I'm sure we look like we're travelling for
leisure, but that's not the same thing as a casual traveller. See above.

(Also - consider that a
business traveller who is obvious by dress may be following my advice to
dress
in passable dress for business as a contingency against lost baggage, so
those
would tend to be just the ones who don't try to carry everything on.)

It didn't occur to me to use dress as an indicator, though I now that I
think about it, I suppose I'd assume the tank top, shorts and sandal crowd
were casual flyers.


Laptop possession, lordy knows, doesn't make the distinction anymore
either.

Why not?


I've brought my son on conference trips - can't even tell from that.

So how would you know, to know which group is violating carryons?

Oh, that? Because when I hear arguments with FAs, it's most often by
families, and most often include phrases like, "I didn't know . . .," "Well
what am I supposed to do . . .","What is a gate check?", etc.



Banty