Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far
prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has
learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not
allowed on any commercial airlines.

Are they terrorists or violent criminals or something else? CBS 2's
Cheryl Fiandaca investigates.

The airport counter: This is as far as Rebecca Gordon and Janet Adams
say they are allowed to go at San Francisco International Airport. The
last time they checked in for a flight to Boston to visit Gordon's
80-year-old father, an airline employee called the police.

"She came back and said you turned up on the FBI no-fly list. We have
called the San Francisco police. We were shocked, really shocked,"
recalled Adams.

"We were detained. We were definitely detained. I couldn't even get a
drink of water," Gordon remembered.

So why would two women in their 50's, U.S. citizens, San Francisco
homeowners and long-time peace activists with no criminal records be
on a federal watch list with suspected terrorists?

That's just one of the questions the couple wanted answers to.

An ACLU attorney tells CBS 2 the government won't even tell them if
Gordon and Adams are on the list.

Last April, the ACLU of Northern California filed suit against the
Transportation Security Administration and the FBI on behalf of the
pair and demanded answers to basic questions, including how many
people are on the secret list, who is on the it, how do you get on it
and how can you get off it.

This what they got back: hundreds of pages of blacked out text that
give them no answers to any of their questions.

"The government has blacked out the information about what criteria
they use to place people on these lists. So we don't know how someone
gets on the list. How they can get off the list if they're on it
incorrectly, we don't know. If the government monitors the list, we
don't know if any of this makes us any safer. What we do know is
hundreds, maybe thousands, of passengers are being routinely hassled,
innocent passengers, because of these lists," ACLU attorney Jayashri
Srikantiah told CBS 2.

Civil rights activists don't dispute the governments right to keep a
watchlist, but they do have a problem with who's on it and why.

"It's very scary that our government is keeping a list. That's scary,"
Adams said.

Scary and all too real. The government has admitted it has a secret
no-fly list of people who are not allowed to fly. And also has a
secret selected list of people who are to be singled out, detained,
and questioned.

Both are stored in airline databases and are accessed at check in. The
lists allegedly contain thousands of names of passengers who are to be
stopped before boarding commercial flights.

The list isn't new. It has been in existence since about 1990 but was
expanded after the September 11th attacks.

"It's a no-fly list, it's a list of names gathered through
intelligence and law enforcement of individuals who are either known
terrorists or have links to known terrorists," TSA spokesperson Mark
Hatfied told Fiandaca.

The list is now alleged to include not only suspected terrorists and
those believed to be a threat to aviation security but civil rights
activists say it also targets people based on their political views. A
list that is thought to include members of the Green Party, a Jesuit
priest who is a peace activist and two civil rights attorneys.

In Gordon and Adams' case, the ACLU believes the couple may have been
targeted for their work on War Times, a free bilingual newspaper that
has been critical of the war and the Bush administration's policies on
terrorism.

It's very scary that two people who pose no danger, who are publishing
something, which last time I looked we were allowed to do, are being
detained at the airport and having the police called and they won't
tell us why," Adams said.

And as of today, Gordon and Adams still don't have any answers from
the government but have a court hearing set for April 9th. This
controversy isn't likely to go away anytime soon, since the government
is planning on implementing a color code system this summer to track
passengers and that list too is expected to be secret.

..........

http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/loc...036144559.html

"jake" wrote in message ...
CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far
prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has
learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not
allowed on any commercial airlines.


My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know if
you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have
access to it. -Dave

"Anon" wrote in message
s.com...

"jake" wrote in message ...
CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far
prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has
learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not
allowed on any commercial airlines.


My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know if
you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have
access to it. -Dave

The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a
frequent flyer for the last 35 years.
I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I fly
2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is "Flagged"
& I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage.
Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class
action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still deny
the list exists.

My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know
if
you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have
access to it. -Dave

The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a
frequent flyer for the last 35 years.
I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I
fly
2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is
"Flagged"
& I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage.
Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class
action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still
deny
the list exists.

Interesting. A couple weeks ago, I flew cross-country. I was inspected
BOTH ways. A very thorough inspection where all the contents of my bag were
removed, and all the contents of other containers were removed. (shaving
kit, computer bag, etc.). On top of that, I was required to mostly undress
and subjected to a thorough inspection with one of those hand-held wand
thingies. It took me over a half hour to check in for my flights, and
that's not counting waiting in line. I have not been a frequent flyer until
recently. Now my job requires it. I'll bet after I post this I'm upgraded
to "no fly" status because I dared to write about it. -Dave

"Anon" wrote in message
s.com...
(snip)
Interesting. A couple weeks ago, I flew cross-country. I was inspected
BOTH ways. A very thorough inspection where all the contents of my bag
were
removed, and all the contents of other containers were removed. (shaving
kit, computer bag, etc.). On top of that, I was required to mostly
undress
and subjected to a thorough inspection with one of those hand-held wand
thingies. It took me over a half hour to check in for my flights, and
that's not counting waiting in line. I have not been a frequent flyer
until
recently. Now my job requires it. I'll bet after I post this I'm
upgraded
to "no fly" status because I dared to write about it. -Dave

Nah, they go mainly by how you act at the archway. Going through sideways
(like I sometimes do out of habit due to narrow archway at my office) gets
you an automatic second inspection, as does shoes beeping, even if you
offered to take them off. The Federal ID I carry, and the security
clearances that go with it, appear to have little effect anymore. I seem to
get the 'bend over and cough' routine about every 3rd flight or so. In the
pre-TSA days, the federal ID would almost get me a wave-thru. (never asked
for special treatment, of course, but I would show that instead of a drivers
license checking in.)

aem sends....

Nah, they go mainly by how you act at the archway. Going through sideways
(like I sometimes do out of habit due to narrow archway at my office) gets
you an automatic second inspection, as does shoes beeping, even if you
offered to take them off. The Federal ID I carry, and the security
clearances that go with it, appear to have little effect anymore. I seem
to
get the 'bend over and cough' routine about every 3rd flight or so. In the
pre-TSA days, the federal ID would almost get me a wave-thru. (never asked
for special treatment, of course, but I would show that instead of a
drivers
license checking in.)

aem sends....


Can't be. I was picked for the extra inspections at the ticket counter,
long before I got anywhere near the archways. -Dave

Your last name doesn't happen to be Nelson, does it? A few months ago,
one of the local columnists (Margie Boule) in the Portland Oregonian
wrote about the TSA list ("David Nelson, Could You Step Aside for a Few
Moments?", Portland Oregonian, May 4, 2003). Seems that people named
Dave Nelson are being asked to step aside for aditional screening at
airports all over the country. I think she interviewed 18 people named
Dave Nelson for the article, but that is just from memory.

Anon wrote:

Interesting. A couple weeks ago, I flew cross-country. I was inspected
BOTH ways. A very thorough inspection where all the contents of my bag were
removed, and all the contents of other containers were removed. (shaving
kit, computer bag, etc.). On top of that, I was required to mostly undress
and subjected to a thorough inspection with one of those hand-held wand
thingies. It took me over a half hour to check in for my flights, and
that's not counting waiting in line. I have not been a frequent flyer until
recently. Now my job requires it. I'll bet after I post this I'm upgraded
to "no fly" status because I dared to write about it. -Dave

Walt Tucker wrote:

Your last name doesn't happen to be Nelson, does it?

My name is Andrew Williams. Unfortunately, that is also the name of a
fugitive which the Connecticut state police have been unable to find
for the past three years. This causes a delay of one hour every time
I try to fly out of Connecticut, which I do up to twice per month.
This is totally unacceptable, but I have no recourse.
--
Andy Williams

Originally posted by Walt Tucker
Your last name
doesn't happen to be Nelson, does it? A few months ago,
one of the
local columnists (Margie Boule) in the Portland Oregonian
wrote
about the TSA list ("David Nelson, Could You Step Aside for a Few

Moments?", Portland Oregonian, May 4, 2003). Seems that people named

Dave Nelson are being asked to step aside for aditional screening at

airports all over the country. I think she interviewed 18 people named

Dave Nelson for the article, but that is just from memory.



Actually a friend of mine really is called David Nelson and he's in his
late 30's. In May last year he was stopped at Sydney International
Airport from boarding a United Airlines flight to LA. The poor guy was
terrified when he was being questioned at length (and his mother who
was on the same flight was trying to find out the phone numbers of
Aussie Prime Minister John Howard and the Australian Embassy in
Washington DC so she could complain!). Luckily for this particular
David Nelson, he's Australian himself but did discover that indeed the
FBI are looking for a US citizen called David Nelson.... and yes, he's
seen the newspaper reports too!


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

"Walt Tucker" wrote in message
...

Your last name doesn't happen to be Nelson, does it?

Nope. But I'll be sure not to use Nelson as one of my many aliases.
-Dave