Miami to Cuba was: KLM incident raises security questions

wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 04:27:40 GMT, James Robinson
wrote:


wrote:

James Robinson wrote:


wrote:

The US and Cuba have had hostile relations since the 60s.

That's nice, expect the phrase they used in the treaty was
"active hostilities", which is defined as "overt acts of
warfare." Simply making faces at each other across the
Straits of Florida doesn't count.

Another of your completely unsupportable assertions, of course. It's
governments that decide this not usenet posterts.

Those are legal definitions, even if you don't want to accept them. I
go back to my earlier question about why the US allows Cubana to overfly
the country when it would obviously like to prevent such flights. The
answer is because of the multilateral transit agreement that Cuba and
the US signed, whether you like it or not.


The answer accordning to you. It could be nothing more than a tit for
tat situation where US airlines are allowed to fly charters into Cuba
in return and nothing more.


As for the extra distance around Cuba, please show us how your routing
directly over Havana is somehow avoiding Cuba. Your position is simply
absurd, and demonstrates your pathological aversion to admitting you are
wrong.

I didn't. I showed just the opposite.

No you didn't. You showed a routing over the island, and tried to pass
it off as a routing around the island. Don't act so innocent.

Sol let's see then. You're trying to say now that routing over the
island to Jamaica from Miami is 600 miles longer than going direct?

No, I'm not saying that at all. Get the logic straight. Are you on
drugs?


What logic? You made a clear and equivocal claim that flying via Cuba
to Jamaica was 600 miles shorter that flying around Cuba which is
complete bull**** and now you, as usual, are trying to twist around
what you claim you send. Go back and read your post. Unfortunately,
liars have to remember what they said which you are not close to.


That's closer but nowhere near 600 miles and was not what you were
saying anyway. You clearly said that going over Cuba from Miami to
Jamaica was 600 miles shorter than going around it when is plain
silly. Cuba is a dot on the map old boy, not Australia.

Cuba is 800 mile long. That is hardly a dot on the map. If you want to
fly around it, you need to travel at least and an extra 490 miles, as I
demonstrated. That costs the airlines money, and the US allows Cubana
to fly over US territory as a quid pro quo to US airlines flying over
Cuba.


A. 490 is not 600. It is almost 20 % less

B. Again, Miami to Kington shows a distance of 579 miles. Miam to
Havana to Kingston shows a distance of 708 miles. So do us all a
favor. Show us a routing from Miami to Kingston which is 600 miles
shorter than either of these routes tha goes over Cuba which is what
you were claiming.



I wish you two would get to something with substance. In any case
Havana is pretty western for a flight from Miami to Kingston. And
Jamaica is tucked in tight against Cuba and is possibly the only case
where avoiding Cuba is a problem.

If you want a decent and quick estimate for the cost in distance to
avoid Cuba then use Miami to Post-au-Prince to Kingston. That will
reasonably avoid Cuban airspace.




I wasn't the one saying that going around Cuba to Jamaica was
600 miles longer than flying over it. It's not. So just where
am I wrong?

You are the one who tries to claim that a flight over Havana somehow
avoids the island of Cuba. It doesn't. I provided the calculation, plus
a map to prove my point. You suggested that 160 extra miles would avoid
Cuba, which it doesn't. I showed that at least 490 miles was necessary.
(So my initial guess of 600 was a bit high. At least it was closer than
what you are trying to pawn off as an avoiding flight route.) The facts
are there.

Are you completely nuts (apparently)? I said nothing of the kind.

Oh go do something anatomically impossible. If you don't want to have a
civil discussion, then just go do something else. You have been making
a circular argument to avoid admitting you were completely wrong on this
subject. Deal with it. You are pathologically wired to avoid self
criticism.

the rest of the crap snipped for brevity


The refuge of idiots when their assertings are exposed. Like I said,
show us some veriafiable routing from Miami to Kingston that is 600
miles longer than one flying over Cuba. That is what you said, so
prove it.