Boeing confirms Dreamliner delays

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In rec.travel.air Martin wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:29:18 +0100, Alfred Molon wrote:

In article cab4f2f6-b32e-4e77-ad74-
, me says...

Well, "A" A380 is flying.

Two are flying now (the second has been delivered).

Two production are in service. Others are flying too

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre..._a380_sia.html

And a third is about to be delivered to Emirates, and the
Executive one is going to be delivered later this year, around july
according to AirlinerWorld.

BL.
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Brad Littlejohn | Email:
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me wrote:

Yeah, I mentioned this in my original response. You have a plane
that doesn't exist yet and a plane that isn't finished. It's a race
between them to get to the full production versions and demonstrate
actual performance in operations. The first one to do so may get
a "head start" on future orders.

That's a stretch. It's not like they are airlines are going to pick one
over the other based on completion time.

"me" wrote in message
...

Well, "A" A380 is flying.

------------------

Two now.

Singapore Airlines sent me an email yesterday saying their second one has
been delivered and will be flying London to Singapore 'real soon now'...

God help us all when 600 people try to get through Heathrow
security/check-in/a silly little Terminal 3 gate all at once...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Jan 18, 12:26*am, "Mr. Travel" wrote:
me wrote:

* *Yeah, I mentioned this in my original response. *You have a plane
that doesn't exist yet and a plane that isn't finished. *It's a race
between them to get to the full production versions and demonstrate
actual performance in operations. * The first one to do so may get
a "head start" on future orders.

That's a stretch. It's not like they are airlines are going to pick one
over the other based on completion time.

No, but customers can't wait forever to make long term buys and the
plane that can demonstrate performance the earliest could get more
orders. Demonstrated performance is important.

On Jan 18, 2:03*am, "William Black"
wrote:
"me" wrote in message

...

* Well, "A" A380 is flying.

------------------

Two now.


Well, what I meant by that was that there is a version of the A380
flying, but
my understanding is that it is not the "full production" version. Of
course planes
always get "tweaked" but I think the ones flying now qualify more as
"pre-production"
and the vast majority that will be made will be significantly
different. That may
be good because it may result in notibily improved performance.

"me" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 2:03 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"me" wrote in message

...

Well, "A" A380 is flying.

------------------

Two now.


Well, what I meant by that was that there is a version of the A380
flying, but
my understanding is that it is not the "full production" version. Of
course planes
always get "tweaked" but I think the ones flying now qualify more as
"pre-production"
and the vast majority that will be made will be significantly
different.

You mean less engines or something significant or seat arrangements and
control layout, which isn't terribly significant...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"me" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 12:26 am, "Mr. Travel" wrote:
me wrote:

Yeah, I mentioned this in my original response. You have a plane
that doesn't exist yet and a plane that isn't finished. It's a race
between them to get to the full production versions and demonstrate
actual performance in operations. The first one to do so may get
a "head start" on future orders.

That's a stretch. It's not like they are airlines are going to pick one
over the other based on completion time.

No, but customers can't wait forever to make long term buys and the
plane that can demonstrate performance the earliest could get more
orders. Demonstrated performance is important.

-----------------------

For example Air India looks like beings seriously embarrassed by the
Dreamliner delays as their Airbus fleet is approaching the 'clapped out'
stage and they need replacing really really quickly...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Jan 18, 12:31*pm, "William Black"
wrote:
"me" wrote in message

...
On Jan 18, 2:03 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"me" wrote in message

...

Well, "A" A380 is flying.

------------------

Two now.

* *Well, what I meant by that was that there is a version of the A380
flying, but
my understanding is that it is not the "full production" version. *Of
course planes
always get "tweaked" but I think the ones flying now qualify more as
"pre-production"
and the vast majority that will be made will be significantly
different.

You mean less engines or something significant or seat arrangements and
control layout, *which isn't terribly significant...

My understanding is that they still have weight problems amongst
other issues. That and the real time between major maintanance cycles
will be a function of the final collection of components. Things like
CG can have a real impact on cruise performance. CG can be driven
by the weight distrubition which is sensitive to components including
major cable harnesses (which is one of the things still being worked
as I understand it.) Mind you I don't think there is anything that
it
going to turn the A380 into some sort of "turkey" with respect to
performance. But the industry fights over single digit percentage
differences.

On Jan 18, 12:32*pm, "William Black"
wrote:
"me" wrote in message

...
On Jan 18, 12:26 am, "Mr. Travel" wrote:

me wrote:

Yeah, I mentioned this in my original response. You have a plane
that doesn't exist yet and a plane that isn't finished. It's a race
between them to get to the full production versions and demonstrate
actual performance in operations. The first one to do so may get
a "head start" on future orders.

That's a stretch. It's not like they are airlines are going to pick one
over the other based on completion time.

* *No, but customers can't wait forever to make long term buys and the
plane that can demonstrate performance the earliest could get more
orders. *Demonstrated performance is important.

-----------------------

For example Air India looks like beings seriously embarrassed by the
Dreamliner delays as their Airbus fleet is approaching the 'clapped out'
stage and they need replacing really really quickly...


Exactly. And to some extent it is more than just a choice of
airframe.
Choosing to buy an A380 is committing to a certain kind of route and a
certain kind of business model. Buying a 787 is buying into a
different,
and potentially completely different, model for servicing routes.
Companies
can't wait forever to make such commitments.

me wrote:

On Jan 18, 12:26 am, "Mr. Travel" wrote:

me wrote:


Yeah, I mentioned this in my original response. You have a plane
that doesn't exist yet and a plane that isn't finished. It's a race
between them to get to the full production versions and demonstrate
actual performance in operations. The first one to do so may get
a "head start" on future orders.

That's a stretch. It's not like they are airlines are going to pick one
over the other based on completion time.


No, but customers can't wait forever to make long term buys and the
plane that can demonstrate performance the earliest could get more
orders. Demonstrated performance is important.


Can you explain why an airline that was planning on buying a 787 would
buy a A380, simply because of the delay? They are not really similar.
You wouldn't go out and buy the biggest plane you can, simply because
the much smaller one is delayed. There are other options.