A question or two from a newbie here

Me again, Caveat.

WHO EVER TOLD YOU THAT IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM IF YOUR NAMES DID NOT
MATCH PERFECTLY?? I just read through all the links I could find for
the SA Embassy, etc, and nowhere does it say that. It DOES say that you
need proof of a return ticket, but you have that. Having just gotten
off of that aircraft with that ticket will be proof enough that you
will be allowed back on.

Go to this site:
http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/homeaffairs/visas/uscanadareq.htm
Its the SA consular page with entry requirements for tourists, and is
the official last word.

More to the point, however, is that you SHOULD get your Yellow Fever
vaccination. There are some risks involved with the vaccine that
nay-sayers like to flaunt, but the simple truth is that, having the
vaccination and the record of it will ease the process of getting your
paperwork, and NOT having it can cause some ripples in the process.

Also, what have you decided about Malaria prophylaxis? IIRC, unless you
are planning to be in the Northern part of Krueger, you won't be in the
malaria zone, and there are a lot of people who will argue all sides of
the malaria issue, but I'm curious what your thoughts are.

For the record, I just lived in the Dem Rep of Congo (Malaria Central),
for three years and did not take meds, and never got malaria. There are
some simple precautions you can take to avoid it (Use bug dope, keep
your skin covered between dusk and dawn, sleep under a fan and in an
air conditioned room), and you are probably going to be minimally
exposed with such a short trip, if you are exposed at all. But if you
are planning to be in far Northern Krueger, sleeping rough or in a
non-AC hut, or doing several night drives and you have some sort of bug
dope allergy, the malaria issue is something else we can talk about
here.

But the name thing: put it to rest. :-)

--riverman again

"riverman" wrote:

I just reread your original post, and if I'm not mistaken, your concern
is that your ticket actually only has middle initial, last name...is
this correct?

Not quite, it's the first name initial and last name (e.g. - C.
Emptor). But the more germane concern is that the name on the ticket
doesn't match the name on the passport (Caveat Clueless Emptor).

If so, then you should be even LESS worried than before.
As I said, I go by my middle name, and my tickets are ALWAYS made out
to "Mr M Buck" (except that one time it said "Mrs M Buck"), and I have
never once had even an inkling of a problem. Never.

I'm hoping that your experience will be the same as mine. (In fact, we
are betting a bunch of money on it!) But some others claim that
people have routinely been denied boarding if the name on the boarding
pass doesn't match the name on the ID shown (in our case a passport).
There was a long debate on this subject in a couple of threads in the
rec.travel.air group earlier this year. Here's one:

http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.tr...299905865bcda4

As usual, there is no clear-cut answer, but the consensus seems to be
that they likely won't notice the difference, but if they DO you are
probably screwed. I'm hoping that in the pre-Christmas rush lines
they'll be too busy to do much more than make a cursory glance. But
security has gotten more tight here in recent months...

In fact, as one poster mentioned, I don't think they even look at your
ticket at passport control in Joberg! Its a pretty busy place, and they
process folks very quickly. Just hand them whatever they ask for, give
them a pleasant smile, and don't even start chatting. If you don't
bring it up, they probably won't either. The worst thing you could do
is voluntarily start into some sort of explanation which may force some
hapless border agent to HAVE to start asking questions and calling
bosses and making a ruckus. Once they have affixed that cool little
green stamp in your passport, its a done deal.

This sounds like good advice. I was thinking about asking the Phoenix
to Atlanta carrier to add my full first name to the boarding pass. But
that might raise the question that I don't want to hear the answer to.

I might be able to get SAA to reissue the tickets at Atlanta. But
getting to Atlanta with the current tickets is the first hurtle. The
connecting carrier doesn't seemed bothered by the mismatch, but the
concern is now when we go through Security at this airport (we board
as international passengers). Once (and if) we get on the plane, the
next hurtle is SAA in Atlanta. If we can't get the ticket reissued,
then it's the same problem there (SAA said they had to match, so they
may not even allow us to board if still using the original ticket).
Only if we get on the plane there will we get concerned about the next
hurtle at Joburg Immigration (if I haven't had a coronary by then).

Nonethess, I just reviewed this with SWMBO, my partner, who is South
African, and she just rolled her eyes and said "if he wants to waste
some time and calm his nerves, tell him to go to a police station and
have them sign a letter stating 'Mr. Caveat Emp Tor is also commonly
known as Mr. M Tor, and we verify that this is indeed, the same
person'.

I tried that. No chance -- they said the only letter they could give
me was one saying that I had no criminal police record here. They have
no idea what names I have used, so couldn't address that. Also tried
the Country, and got a similar answer -- they could only certify about
country court actions that were a matter of record. As a last resort,
I prepared a statement of my own on the matter and will have it
notarized (not that will carry much weight in a crunch.)


Cav

On 28 Nov 2005 05:18:46 -0800, "riverman" wrote:


For the record, I just lived in the Dem Rep of Congo (Malaria Central),
for three years and did not take meds, and never got malaria. There are
some simple precautions you can take to avoid it (Use bug dope, keep
your skin covered between dusk and dawn, sleep under a fan and in an
air conditioned room), and you are probably going to be minimally
exposed with such a short trip, if you are exposed at all. But if you
are planning to be in far Northern Krueger, sleeping rough or in a
non-AC hut, or doing several night drives and you have some sort of bug
dope allergy, the malaria issue is something else we can talk about
here.

Myron and Caveat M. Tor :-)

While I kinda agree with Riverman about not taking the prophylaxis
forshort (or even extended) periods in malarial areas there's
something else that MUST be taken into consideration.

Caveat admitted somewhere in one of these posts that he was an older
person (I'm trying not to offend here...) Malaria is a very serious
disease, and it is significantly more dangerous for the very young and
the older and infirm. I'd strongly recommend that Caveat look into
prophylaxis if he is in anything but superb health. My suggestion is
that he uses the meds as well as the precautionary tips you offered.

A friend of my parents, and 80 year old woman, died within three days
of the onset of symptoms. Don't mess with malaria!!!

Regards,
Marc

Cav:

I just read that other thread, and there is one big thing in common
with this one. Not one single person who ever HAD tickets with
mismatched names has ever had a problem; those people are all saying
"Dont WORRY about it! I've been in that position and nothing ever
happened to me!" Its all the doomsayers who it never happened to who
are claiming that you (and the other person) are taking some sort of
risk. Anyway, the other thread is a completely different situation than
yours: its not a mismatch--its NOT THE RIGHT NAME! Mr John Smith is NOT
Mr Smith John. In your case, it IS your name.

I've had several instances of incomplete or wrong names: first
initial, last name middle initial, last name Mrs instead of
Mr....and have never had any problem other than having to mention that
I go by my middle name, and they said "oh" and punched my passport.

I would suggest that, as you are having a statement prepared and
notarized, you keep it incredibly short and sweet. Don't include the
entire explanation of why and how, and don't go into details.....just
have a single statement that says "This form certifies that 'Mr Caveat
Emp Tor', US passport number 1234567, is the 'Mr C Tor' referred to on
plane ticket #123456." Any more than that will sound too contrived and
might cause a hassle. And save it until the border guy (or the TSA
guy) has tried to refuse you twice.

I cannot POSSIBLY IMAGINE someone looking at a passport that says
'Caveat Emptor', then looking at a plane ticket that says 'Mr. C.
Emptor', could possibly say "sorry, you can't fly/come in. There's only
a first initial here."

:-)

--riverman

"riverman" wrote:

WHO EVER TOLD YOU THAT IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM IF YOUR NAMES DID NOT
MATCH PERFECTLY?? I just read through all the links I could find for
the SA Embassy, etc, and nowhere does it say that.

That certainly makes sense to me, but is contrary to what SAA told me
when I called about the problem. But, as I posted this morning,
getting past Immigration in Jo'burg is only the last in a long list of
trials. Here's what happened to one guy in a very similar situation;
He didn't even get off the ground from home:

http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.tr...fc324d0bdaf646

Go to this site:
http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/homeaffairs/visas/uscanadareq.htm
Its the SA consular page with entry requirements for tourists, and is
the official last word. It DOES say that you
need proof of a return ticket, but you have that. Having just gotten
off of that aircraft with that ticket will be proof enough that you
will be allowed back on.

One hooker in that "Requirements" list is in the "proof of return
ticket' clause, I'm told , is that unless the name on that return
ticket exactly matches the passport name, it will be disregarded. As
the SAA agent noted, "C. Emptor" could cover a whole lot of people
besides me. So Clarence Emptor could use that return ticket while I go
underground as an illegal alien in South Africa.

One option they don't mention is, in that situation, one can
supposedly put up a cash bond equal to the cost of the return ticket.
The unwritten rules make me nervous, though. But, as stated earlier,
that's only the last hurdle in a long list of them.

More to the point, however, is that you SHOULD get your Yellow Fever
vaccination. There are some risks involved with the vaccine that
nay-sayers like to flaunt, but the simple truth is that, having the
vaccination and the record of it will ease the process of getting your
paperwork, and NOT having it can cause some ripples in the process.

A Yellow fever inoculation isn't required to enter SA unless one has
recently been to an area where it is epidemic. We haven't, so don't
plan to do that. (Check with me to see if I'm still alive next year.)

Also, what have you decided about Malaria prophylaxis? IIRC, unless you
are planning to be in the Northern part of Krueger, you won't be in the
malaria zone, and there are a lot of people who will argue all sides of
the malaria issue, but I'm curious what your thoughts are.

Well, after researching all the options, we decided to play it safe
(as Marc suggests below) and do the Larium (for wifey) and doxycyline
(for me) thing . I guess being an old fart and not having any
resistance like the locals it's a good (but not perfect) preventative.

But the name thing: put it to rest. :-)

I just might so far as to do a legal name change now (never did like
Caveat as a name anyway). Then I could get a driver's license for "C.
Emptor" which would serve to match my ticket name and is acceptable
ID to fly in the US (to Atlanta). Then if I can get a ticket reissue
there from SAA, maybe I could actually get to South Africa -- at which
point I could try to explain the new disparity between the name on my
ticket/driver's license, and my passport.

This international travel stuff sure is fun, huh?

(Maybe I should have just stood in bed.)

Here's what happened to one guy in a very similar situation;
He didn't even get off the ground from home:

http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.tr...ead/thread/5bc...

I just read this and it's dated Sept 2001, shortly after the 9/11
attacks when all the airline and customs folks were
hyper-ventilating... In absence of a more recent event I'd not worry
too much about it unless the names are wildly different ... FWIW I've
traveled overseas a few times with "William" on my passport and "Bill"
on the tix without a problem.

"riverman" wrote:

I just read that other thread, and there is one big thing in common
with this one. Not one single person who ever HAD tickets with
mismatched names has ever had a problem;

Actually, several have reported that they have had a similar problem.

....Those people are all saying "Dont WORRY about it! I've been in
that position and nothing ever happened to me!"

Kinda like saying on September 10, 2001 that no one has ever flown
airplanes into New York's World Trade Center towers before. And BTW
I'm not *worried* about it. Just trying to deal with a real threat and
avoid the problem. To do otherwise seems unnecessarily foolish.

Its all the doomsayers who it never happened to who
are claiming that you (and the other person) are taking some sort of
risk. Anyway, the other thread is a completely different situation than
yours: its not a mismatch--its NOT THE RIGHT NAME! Mr John Smith is NOT
Mr Smith John. In your case, it IS your name.

I love your logic, my friend. That's the way I reasoned at the start
of this episode, too. The problem is that the rules just don't agree
with that logic. And the airlines, FAA, and TSA (at least here in the
US) set the rules. Those rules are summarized nicely in this link:

http://www.freetraveltips.com/Airlines/Air09.htm

Note the following in the above:

"A valid ticket and the name on that ticket must match the name on the
I.D. exactly."

"On international flights, you’ll need a passport. The name on that
passport must match the name on your ticket exactly."

Pretty clear. And there are quite a few first-hand accounts posted to
Usenet from people who ran into this trap and were not allowed to
board their flight. Inasmuch as the Usenet representation is a
miniscule percentage of the flying public, it is probably safe to
assume that hundreds of people have run into this problem in the
travel world. It is real, and those who choose to defy the rule and
hope of lax enforcement (including me) are taking a big gamble. The
consequences of losing that bet are significant. RTFM.

I've had several instances of incomplete or wrong names: first
initial, last name middle initial, last name Mrs instead of
Mr....and have never had any problem other than having to mention that
I go by my middle name, and they said "oh" and punched my passport.

Like you, we have never had a problem in the past, and probably won't
this time. But the big challenge, as this thing has developed, isn't
getting past SA Immigration, but dealing with the airline rules here
in the US. Most people, as you correctly point out, report in the two
relevant groups that they had no problems with mismatched names in the
past. That's very encouraging. But that does not mean that we wont.

South African Airways has made it crystal clear to me (which was
verified by Rodger early in this thread after his call to SAA in
Jo'burg) that there is a problem with my ticket and ID that might
require me having to buy another ticket ($1500 US) to fix. Without
that ticket reissue, they say I will not be permitted to board the
aircraft to South Africa from Atlanta. That posture may sound
outrageous to you and me, but the hard fact is that they have the
power to do that, and they say they will. I believe them.

I cannot POSSIBLY IMAGINE someone looking at a passport that says
'Caveat Emptor', then looking at a plane ticket that says 'Mr. C.
Emptor', could possibly say "sorry, you can't fly/come in. There's only
a first initial here."

Me neither. But this can happen, and has happened. So, my advice to
anyone reading this is to make damned sure that the name on the ID you
are using exactly matches the name on the ticket. To ignore that
advice is playing vacation Russian Roulette. You might win, but....

My heartfelt thanks to you and everyone else here who responded to my
post with their suggestions, advice, experiences, and encouragement.
You have a fine group here. We will complete the *work around* plans
we are implementing here that may avoid the problem at the airports.
With some luck, it should all work out OK. I will report back to the
group at the completion of the trip (or its abortion) on how it went.

Regards to all,


C. Emptor

(This should be official in a couple of weeks after a court hearing.)

So, any word from our friend Caveat Emptor and his trip to South
Africa? I'm wondering if the border folks, or the TSA goons, let him
get on his flight.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote:

So, any word from our friend Caveat Emptor and his trip to South
Africa? I'm wondering if the border folks, or the TSA goons, let him
get on his flight.


Hi, riverman

Just got back from South Africa this afternoon and will be posting
here on the entire trip in a series of threads on the various issues
discussed here in the past. Suffice it to say, however, that we had a
wonderful time in your country and have never been treated better in
any of our past travels. Great places, great people. Thanks.

Cav

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:54:52 -0700, Caveat
wrote:

Just got back from South Africa this afternoon and will be posting
here on the entire trip in a series of threads on the various issues
discussed here in the past. Suffice it to say, however, that we had a
wonderful time in your country and have never been treated better in
any of our past travels. Great places, great people. Thanks.

Cav

I'm delighted to hear that you had a good time, and I look forward to
your more detailed report.

Obviously, our emigration officials didn't arrest you at the airport
:-)

Marc