Laredo to Mazatlan

The advice to not drive at night applies to all of Mexico, but applies
double in the south of Mexico, where I do not even recommend night bus
travel. Oaxaca, Guerrero, Chiapas, and Campeche have known problems.

The toll roads are probably safer at night than the regular highways, if
you had to drive at night.



Richard,

Have you ever driven the toll road from Nuevo Laredo to Monterrey? Would
this be an exception to the rule about night driving? I'm reluctant to drive
at night, but, the way my itenerary is working out, we might have to make
the drive from NL to Monterrey late at night. I've never driven this
stretch of road, so I would like to know what it's like before I commit to
it at night. I have heard that it is a pretty good road, just as good, if
not better, than US interstates.

Thanks to everyone for all the great info in response to my post.

Regards,

R. Duke

"Raoul Duke" dsnell@IHATESPAM, IT REALLY SUCKS.com wrote in message
...
I am considering a surf trip from Laredo to Mazatlan by car. Does anyone
have any experiences driving from Laredo (or Piedras Negras) to Mazatlan?
Any suggestions, tips, etc?

From the border to Durango you'll have toll road, if you enter at
Laredo. I haven't driven that part of it, but in general the Mexican toll
roads are usually as good as the American freeways. They're also expensive.

I have driven the section from Durango to Mazatlan. Part of that
highway is known as the Devil's Spine. It's one of the most scenic highways
in North America. In places you are driving on a ridgetop with sharp
drop-offs on both sides. There are signs up there warning that drivers
coming the other way will sometimes cut the corners--even if they see you
coming. Trucks will sometimes do this with no excuse but laziness. You
definetely don't want to drive this section at night.

Staying off the Mexican highways at night is pretty standard advice and
you'll hear it a lot from the Mexicans. It's due to: road hazards, loose
livestock, topes (speed bumps, they're all over the place. They're rare on
the toll roads, but not unheard of. You'll see them in areas where you need
to slow down), drunks and people driving without headlights. The problems
_generally_ aren't as great on the toll roads, but they are there. There are
places where I'll drive short distances at night, but I've never found night
driving in Mexico worth the wear and tear on the nerves. Even during the day
Mexico requires very defensive driving.

I concur on the Guia Roji road atlas. It has a lot of errors, but it's
still the best thing going. It's notorius for showing toll roads that
sometimes still only exist on the drawing boards. I've always found it
easiest to buy it before I leave home. If you can find it for the cover
price of 100 pesos it's a great deal.


Dennis

Raoul

The information you have been given is correct. The toll road between
Laredo and Monterrey is excellent and I have driven it many times at night.
Ironically, the most difficult driving in the darkness is the local road
that goes from the border to the area of the secondary aduana. It is pitch
black and the road is very narrow with little differentiation between the
pavement and shoulder. Oncoming traffic seems to either be using high beams
or, worse, no lights at all! Don't let this discourage you from driving
this stretch at night but be aware that this is the most difficult part of
the trip.

Brian
--
"I think its important that the United States take an interest in Tijuana,
now"

Javier Rodriguez Rodriguez
The honest cop in the movie "TRAFFIC"



"Raoul Duke" dsnell@IHATESPAM, IT REALLY SUCKS.com wrote in message
...
Have you ever driven the toll road from Nuevo Laredo to Monterrey? Would
this be an exception to the rule about night driving? I'm reluctant to
drive
at night, but, the way my itenerary is working out, we might have to make
the drive from NL to Monterrey late at night. I've never driven this
stretch of road, so I would like to know what it's like before I commit to
it at night. I have heard that it is a pretty good road, just as good, if
not better, than US interstates.

Thanks to everyone for all the great info in response to my post.

Regards,

R. Duke

The usual reasons cited for not driving at night are animals on the
road, poor signage, unlit vehicles, unmarked topes (speed bumps), and
bandits, with or without uniforms. All in all, Mexico is a more
dangerous place to drive than the USA, and driving at night makes it a
lot more dangerous.

By night I mean in darkness, but I would note that in the USA, the
twilight hour is often considered the most dangerous, so I assume that
would apply in Mexico as well. So I recommend that you not drive
between sunset and sunrise.

Dennis the Technobarbarian makes the case against night driving in a
little more detail.

As far as I know, all authorities on Mexico recommend against driving at
night. I will occasionally drive a short distance at night if I know
the road, but no way would I consider a trip plan that called for hours
of night driving. It really doesn't pass the common sense test, if you
know Mexico.

Richard


Duncan McNiven wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:58:45 GMT, Richard Ferguson wrote:

The advice to not drive at night applies to all of Mexico, but applies
double in the south of Mexico, where I do not even recommend night bus
travel. Oaxaca, Guerrero, Chiapas, and Campeche have known problems.

The toll roads are probably safer at night than the regular highways, if
you had to drive at night.

OK. We were thinking of Morelia to Veracruz, wholly or partly at night. I take it you
suggest we think again? Why exactly? (Sorry if that is a dumb question but I have not been
to mexico before).

Oh, and by night do you simply mean "in darkness"?

--
Duncan

Richard

Your response reflects the conventional wisdom regarding driving at night in
rural Mexico. His question, however, dealt with a specific area which does
not suffer from loose animals, topes of any kind nor banditos. I think it
does a disservice to just give the usual canned response not to drive at all
at night. It's like the admonition not to eat the lettuce in Mexico. It all
depends....
saludos
Brian


"Richard Ferguson" wrote in message
...
The usual reasons cited for not driving at night are animals on the
road, poor signage, unlit vehicles, unmarked topes (speed bumps), and
bandits, with or without uniforms. All in all, Mexico is a more
dangerous place to drive than the USA, and driving at night makes it a
lot more dangerous.

By night I mean in darkness, but I would note that in the USA, the
twilight hour is often considered the most dangerous, so I assume that
would apply in Mexico as well. So I recommend that you not drive
between sunset and sunrise.

Dennis the Technobarbarian makes the case against night driving in a
little more detail.

As far as I know, all authorities on Mexico recommend against driving at
night. I will occasionally drive a short distance at night if I know
the road, but no way would I consider a trip plan that called for hours
of night driving. It really doesn't pass the common sense test, if you
know Mexico.

Richard


Duncan McNiven wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:58:45 GMT, Richard Ferguson
wrote:

The advice to not drive at night applies to all of Mexico, but applies
double in the south of Mexico, where I do not even recommend night bus
travel. Oaxaca, Guerrero, Chiapas, and Campeche have known problems.

The toll roads are probably safer at night than the regular highways,
if
you had to drive at night.

OK. We were thinking of Morelia to Veracruz, wholly or partly at night.
I take it you
suggest we think again? Why exactly? (Sorry if that is a dumb question
but I have not been
to mexico before).

Oh, and by night do you simply mean "in darkness"?

--
Duncan

"Irlandes" wrote in message
...
Richard

Your response reflects the conventional wisdom regarding driving at night
in
rural Mexico. His question, however, dealt with a specific area which
does
not suffer from loose animals, topes of any kind nor banditos. I think it
does a disservice to just give the usual canned response not to drive at
all
at night. It's like the admonition not to eat the lettuce in Mexico. It
all
depends....

I'd have to agree that there are areas that can be crossed at night,
more or less comfortably. For me it depends a lot on personal knowledge of
the area. Cancun to Tulum, for example, doesn't bother me because it's a
modern highway that's well taken care, well patrolled and in an area without
livestock. And I know where the easy part ends. On the other hand I know
experienced drivers who nearly died because of loose livestock not all that
far from home on the toll road north of Hermosillo. Some of the toll roads
are very lightly travelled at night and quite comfortable. In places where
there's much traffic the drunks, aggressive drivers and people without
headlights can make things very uncomfortable after dark.

My former girlfriend started eating her greens after she saw me "getting
by with it" all over the place. The answer is that the restaurant business
is very competitive and it's not good business if your customers get sick.
Eating where the locals eat works good for me.


Dennis

The Terran carbon-based unit designating itself as "Technobarbarian"
shared its ideas in
rec.travel.latin-america on Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:09:30 GMT:


"Raoul Duke" dsnell@IHATESPAM, IT REALLY SUCKS.com wrote in message
...
I am considering a surf trip from Laredo to Mazatlan by car. Does
anyone have any experiences driving from Laredo (or Piedras Negras)
to Mazatlan? Any suggestions, tips, etc?

Staying off the Mexican highways at night is pretty standard
advice and
you'll hear it a lot from the Mexicans. It's due to: road hazards,
loose livestock, topes (speed bumps, they're all over the place.
They're rare on the toll roads, but not unheard of. You'll see them
in areas where you need to slow down), drunks and people driving
without headlights. The problems _generally_ aren't as great on the
toll roads, but they are there.

I can attest to several of these things. I drove back from
Guatemala to Comitan, in Chiapas at night, and completely did not see a
major tope (speed bump), which was shaped somewhat like a ramp, and we
did achieve about 1.5 feet of air. That was an interesting ride. In
general, we were NOT driving at night, but we stayed to long in
Guatemala, and there were no decent places to stay in that area, so we
returned to Comitan, since we had driven the road, we knew it, except
for the Topes.

Two days later on our way to Bonampak, there was one point in the
road where a boulder the size of the lane had fallen into the oncoming
lane, so traffic, when it was there, had to take turns going around it,
and on another part of the road, in the lane we were in, the entire road
had sunk about 3 feet down, and about 15 feet in length. If we had
driven those sections at night, we likely would NOT have seen these
obstacles, and perhaps created huge problems.

I haven't had much problem with livestock in years, but that
doesn't mean that they don't sometimes wander on the road. I was warned
about this when driving from Campeche to Villahermosa, but did not see
any livestock on the roads.

There are places where I'll drive
short distances at night, but I've never found night driving in
Mexico worth the wear and tear on the nerves. Even during the day
Mexico requires very defensive driving.

In places I am familiar with, and where I know the roads well, I
have no problem driving in the day or the night. The problem is when
you are unfamiliar, because obstacles are very difficult to see.

I concur on the Guia Roji road atlas. It has a lot of errors,
but it's
still the best thing going. It's notorius for showing toll roads that
sometimes still only exist on the drawing boards. I've always found
it easiest to buy it before I leave home. If you can find it for the
cover price of 100 pesos it's a great deal.

I bought my Guia Rojis, both the national one, and the Mexico City
one in mid-2001, and for me, they were surprisingly accurate for the
most part. Many times when I was lost, going to an unfamiliar area, or
just trying to get out of traffic, I would refer to the Guia Roji, and
it would be very helpful in getting me where I need to go.

The national one, that shows the toll roads, and routes and costs
from X to Y, was usually within 5 pesos of the actual toll being charged
at any particular place. I was very satisfied with them, and would
fully recommend them, and buy them again, when needed. They are
expensive, though, but worth it. I've seen them in Grocery Stores,
Office Supply Stores, Sanborns, and many other places in Mexico.

--Douglas

The Terran carbon-based unit designating itself as "Technobarbarian"
shared its ideas in
rec.travel.latin-america on Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:34:25 GMT:
My former girlfriend started eating her greens after she saw me
"getting
by with it" all over the place. The answer is that the restaurant
business is very competitive and it's not good business if your
customers get sick. Eating where the locals eat works good for me.

I follow this rule whenever I travel. If there are a lot of locals
frequenting a restaurant, even if it looks like a hole in the wall, I will
trust it far more than a very nice looking place that is nearly empty.
People don't go back to a place if they get sick all the time.

It also works with activities. I remember in Italy, I was with a
group of people, and there was an area of beach and ocean that had no one
in it. Several of the group wanted to go in, as it was a hot day, and it
looked refreshing. I was leary, since an empty beach seemed suspicious,
so I didn't go in, but several others did. It turns out that many of the
people that went in came back out fairly soon, with jellyfish
burns/stings. Watch the locals, they usually know what's going on.

--Douglas

Raoul Duke wrote:

The advice to not drive at night applies to all of Mexico, but applies
double in the south of Mexico, where I do not even recommend night bus
travel. Oaxaca, Guerrero, Chiapas, and Campeche have known problems.

The toll roads are probably safer at night than the regular highways, if
you had to drive at night.
Richard,

Have you ever driven the toll road from Nuevo Laredo to Monterrey? Would
this be an exception to the rule about night driving? I'm reluctant to drive
at night, but, the way my itenerary is working out, we might have to make
the drive from NL to Monterrey late at night. I've never driven this
stretch of road, so I would like to know what it's like before I commit to
it at night. I have heard that it is a pretty good road, just as good, if
not better, than US interstates.



The road N. Laredo to Monterrey to Durango is excellent, except it
is rather confusing getting through Torreon. Durango can be reached
from Texas in one day. We did it in May from Austin, leaving at 5am
arriving before dark. Now, we *did* already have car insurance and the
import permit prior to leaving which saves time.
I've driven at night through Mexico and the toll roads are
outstanding. Beyond Durango, be prepared for a beautiful but twisting
trip through the sierras.

a surf trip from Laredo to Mazatlan

You won't be getting in much surfing on this sort of route. And when you get to
Mazatlan you still won't get too much surfing. You will have to go farther
south.
Look at a map.
Best for you would be to head west across US on good roads and then go south
into Baja if you really want to surf. Baja is a prime surf spot. This avoids
the Mex driving talked about here (bad roads, night driving, $$$ toll roads,
Mex insurance) and gets you to the surf areas.
Your prospective route now is not a surfing trip.