Soon, new rules for foreigners visiting US

The US has about 45 million visiting per year, and lost
about 5 million visitors from 2000 to 2001.

New rules also will start In March for just visitors.

New French passports already have the biometric info, but the
older one`s do not. This will cause some problems.

Earl

***


Soon, new rules for foreigners

Millions of foreign visitors to the United States, already under strict
scrutiny since the 2001 terrorist attacks, soon will have to be
fingerprinted and photographed to get through the nation's airports and
seaports.

On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security announced plans for a
high-tech system that will help track the 24 million foreigners who enter
the country with work, student or travel visas each year.

Congress ordered the system after the Sept. 11 attacks, when officials
learned that two of the 19 hijackers had violated the terms of their visas.
The program's goal is to prevent potential terrorists from entering the
country and to register foreigners who are allowed in. It also requires
foreigners to check out when they leave so officials can look for people who
stay after their visas expire.

The program replaces a controversial measure that required people in the
United States from 25 mostly Muslim countries to register with the
government.

Asa Hutchinson, head of border security at the department, called it a
"dramatic step forward" in tightening security.

But airport managers and travel industry officials say they're concerned
that the program will cause delays and discourage tourism. Civil
libertarians worry that the information collected won't stay private.

The first part of the new entry-exit system will be launched at 115 airports
and 14 major seaports on Jan. 5. Border agents will use a digital camera on
a desktop tripod and an electronic fingerprint machine not much bigger than
a pack of cigarettes to collect biometric information. The data will be
compared with lists of known and suspected terrorists and other lawbreakers.
Within seconds, the agent's computer will indicate whether there was a
"hit."

Foreigners from 27 countries deemed low-risk will not have to be
photographed or fingerprinted. But they will have biometric information put
in chips in their passports by late 2004.

The exit part of the new system will require visitors to go to a
self-service kiosk, swipe their passports and provide their fingerprints.
The kiosks will operate at only about 30 airports in January. Officials said
the technology for that part of the program is still being developed.

The most difficult part of the program setting up the system at border
crossings must be done by 2005. It will be complicated and expensive because
there are no lanes or booths for agents to check people on their way out of
the country. Studies show that adding an exit system could add hours of
waiting time.

Congress, concerned about how the program was being managed, cut its funding
this year. President Bush ( news -web sites ) requested $480 million for
2004; Congress approved $330 million.

Rick Webster of the Travel Industry Association said his group supports the
idea of registering foreign visitors. But he expressed concern that there
may not be "enough equipment, personnel and training to support expeditious
processing."

If people face three or four-hour waits at airports, he said, "it only adds
another disincentive for people to come here."

Thats not travelling in Europe


"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de

The US has about 45 million visiting per year, and lost
about 5 million visitors from 2000 to 2001.

New rules also will start In March for just visitors.

New French passports already have the biometric info, but the
older one`s do not. This will cause some problems.

Earl

***


Soon, new rules for foreigners

Millions of foreign visitors to the United States, already under
strict scrutiny since the 2001 terrorist attacks, soon will have to be
fingerprinted and photographed to get through the nation's airports
and seaports.

On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security announced plans for a
high-tech system that will help track the 24 million foreigners who
enter the country with work, student or travel visas each year.

Congress ordered the system after the Sept. 11 attacks, when officials
learned that two of the 19 hijackers had violated the terms of their
visas. The program's goal is to prevent potential terrorists from
entering the country and to register foreigners who are allowed in.
It also requires foreigners to check out when they leave so officials
can look for people who stay after their visas expire.

The program replaces a controversial measure that required people in
the United States from 25 mostly Muslim countries to register with the
government.

Asa Hutchinson, head of border security at the department, called it a
"dramatic step forward" in tightening security.

But airport managers and travel industry officials say they're
concerned that the program will cause delays and discourage tourism.
Civil libertarians worry that the information collected won't stay
private.

The first part of the new entry-exit system will be launched at 115
airports and 14 major seaports on Jan. 5. Border agents will use a
digital camera on a desktop tripod and an electronic fingerprint
machine not much bigger than a pack of cigarettes to collect
biometric information. The data will be compared with lists of known
and suspected terrorists and other lawbreakers. Within seconds, the
agent's computer will indicate whether there was a "hit."

Foreigners from 27 countries deemed low-risk will not have to be
photographed or fingerprinted. But they will have biometric
information put in chips in their passports by late 2004.

The exit part of the new system will require visitors to go to a
self-service kiosk, swipe their passports and provide their
fingerprints. The kiosks will operate at only about 30 airports in
January. Officials said the technology for that part of the program
is still being developed.

The most difficult part of the program setting up the system at border
crossings must be done by 2005. It will be complicated and expensive
because there are no lanes or booths for agents to check people on
their way out of the country. Studies show that adding an exit system
could add hours of waiting time.

Congress, concerned about how the program was being managed, cut its
funding this year. President Bush ( news -web sites ) requested $480
million for 2004; Congress approved $330 million.

Rick Webster of the Travel Industry Association said his group
supports the idea of registering foreign visitors. But he expressed
concern that there may not be "enough equipment, personnel and
training to support expeditious processing."

If people face three or four-hour waits at airports, he said, "it
only adds another disincentive for people to come here."

Lennart Petersen wrote in message
...

"Jeremy Henderson" skrev i meddelandet
...
Not to mention that the immigration people at US airports are often
appallingly rude and patronising. Last time I visited there were
enormous
queues and some little hitler-type was marching up and down the lines
yelling orders and abuse in equal measure - not the best way to start
off
a
vacation .
J.

Believe you ,but I've only one experience and that was pleasant.
Arrival to LAX from Auckland. Not long queues and rather relaxed. Polite
immigration officer just asked "business or pleasure trip?" and that was

I have had mixed welcomes. Coming into Atlanta was the worst. The customs
were outright hostile to me, in that they questioned why I was from one
country, but living in another. I couldn't believe they thought that was
strange! They ended up asking me all sorts of odd stuff, including whether I
had ever been guilty of "moral turpitude", whatever the hell that is.

(I answered no, and THEN they asked me if I knew what it meant!!!!!)
---
DFM

Seems like they've overreacted to American tightening of security. I
wouldn't want to rely on the judgement of a perhaps sleepy, perhaps ill
customs immigration officer on who to record or not record. Too easy
for
undesirables to slip past them. Perhaps having watched the WTC towers
come down 1/2 mile away from my office has jaded my thinking!

You mean the WTC towers that were brought down by people who entered the
country legally under their real identities which were fully recorded by
the
INS at the point of entry? Ah.

And then (IIRC) a few weeks later two of the dead terrorists got granted
visas. (if someone has a link to this story, can they post it?)

This level of control is largely for a psychological effect - to give the
impression of control. It certainly does not gurantee purity and
wholesomeness of the entrants. Nothing can.
---
DFM

Charles Hawtrey wrote in message
...
Wolfgang Barth staggered to the nearest keyboard and
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:57:54 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

Let me ask this, in Germany, if I want to participate in a religious
congregation, why does the government need to know which congregation I
belong to ? I understand it is also for the distribution on funds, but
this is very intrusive ... don't you think ? This is a direct attack on
privacy.

You are allowed to say: "no religion" and nobody will hinder you to
go to any church synagoge or whatever.

The tax authorities ask for the religion because they have contracts
with several churches to collect the fees for the churches in context
with the normal taxes.

Holy mackerel, the government collects membership fees for
churches??!??!? I thought you sophisticated, agnostic Europeans were
much more advanced on concepts of separation between church and state
than us backward, benighted Americans.

Umm, there is a difference between "Germans" and "Europeans", isn't there?
p
---
DFM

In article , Earl Evleth
writes
The US has about 45 million visiting per year, and lost
about 5 million visitors from 2000 to 2001.

New rules also will start In March for just visitors.

New French passports already have the biometric info, but the
older one`s do not. This will cause some problems.

Earl

***


Soon, new rules for foreigners

Millions of foreign visitors to the United States, already under strict
scrutiny since the 2001 terrorist attacks, soon will have to be
fingerprinted and photographed to get through the nation's airports and
seaports.

On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security announced plans for a
high-tech system that will help track the 24 million foreigners who enter
the country with work, student or travel visas each year.

Congress ordered the system after the Sept. 11 attacks, when officials
learned that two of the 19 hijackers had violated the terms of their visas.
The program's goal is to prevent potential terrorists from entering the
country and to register foreigners who are allowed in. It also requires
foreigners to check out when they leave so officials can look for people who
stay after their visas expire.

The program replaces a controversial measure that required people in the
United States from 25 mostly Muslim countries to register with the
government.

Asa Hutchinson, head of border security at the department, called it a
"dramatic step forward" in tightening security.

But airport managers and travel industry officials say they're concerned
that the program will cause delays and discourage tourism. Civil
libertarians worry that the information collected won't stay private.

The first part of the new entry-exit system will be launched at 115 airports
and 14 major seaports on Jan. 5. Border agents will use a digital camera on
a desktop tripod and an electronic fingerprint machine not much bigger than
a pack of cigarettes to collect biometric information. The data will be
compared with lists of known and suspected terrorists and other lawbreakers.
Within seconds, the agent's computer will indicate whether there was a
"hit."

Foreigners from 27 countries deemed low-risk will not have to be
photographed or fingerprinted. But they will have biometric information put
in chips in their passports by late 2004.

The exit part of the new system will require visitors to go to a
self-service kiosk, swipe their passports and provide their fingerprints.
The kiosks will operate at only about 30 airports in January. Officials said
the technology for that part of the program is still being developed.

The most difficult part of the program setting up the system at border
crossings must be done by 2005. It will be complicated and expensive because
there are no lanes or booths for agents to check people on their way out of
the country. Studies show that adding an exit system could add hours of
waiting time.

Congress, concerned about how the program was being managed, cut its funding
this year. President Bush ( news -web sites ) requested $480 million for
2004; Congress approved $330 million.

Rick Webster of the Travel Industry Association said his group supports the
idea of registering foreign visitors. But he expressed concern that there
may not be "enough equipment, personnel and training to support expeditious
processing."

If people face three or four-hour waits at airports, he said, "it only adds
another disincentive for people to come here."



The EU has states it will not co-operate with this and will not include
fingerprints, etc., in passports. So -- no visitors from the EU after
"late 2004" ?

I hope the EU requires this of visitors from the USA also.
--
Marie Lewis

"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
...
In article , Earl Evleth

The EU has states it will not co-operate with this and will not include
fingerprints, etc., in passports. So -- no visitors from the EU after
"late 2004" ?


You are incorrect.

from
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/mob...2137803,00.htm

"RFID tags loaded with biometric information will be embedded into
EU passports to ensure travellers comply with strict US security regulations
New EU passports will be embedded with a radio frequency ID chip that
contains biometric data, after standards bodies put the technology on a
fast-track to deployment"

"The EU agreed to develop a biometric ID strategy during its June
summit in Greece."

see also
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/31380.html
http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,336...73_1_A,00.html

I hope the EU requires this of visitors from the USA also.


The EU is planning to introduce biometric data on visas and

residence permits of third country nationals residing in the EU

starting next year, as a means to counter illegal immigration.


Keith

On 30/10/03 10:51, in article , "Keith
Willshaw" wrote:


"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
...
In article , Earl Evleth

The EU has states it will not co-operate with this and will not include
fingerprints, etc., in passports. So -- no visitors from the EU after
"late 2004" ?


You are incorrect.

from
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/mob...2137803,00.htm

"RFID tags loaded with biometric information will be embedded into
EU passports to ensure travellers comply with strict US security regulations
New EU passports will be embedded with a radio frequency ID chip that
contains biometric data, after standards bodies put the technology on a
fast-track to deployment"

"The EU agreed to develop a biometric ID strategy during its June
summit in Greece."

see also
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/31380.html
http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,336...73_1_A,00.html

I hope the EU requires this of visitors from the USA also.


The EU is planning to introduce biometric data on visas and

residence permits of third country nationals residing in the EU

starting next year, as a means to counter illegal immigration.


Keith


New French passports already have this, I am about to renew mine
and will find out shortly want it contains. I have never had my
fingerprints taken in France, the French would react negatively to
that. It is associated with being a criminal. By the way,
recent French law "forces" all prison inmates to submit to DNA
archiving. They don't force, a resisting prisoner gets an extra
two years in prison. Some of those in prison for life, refuse
since and extra two years means nothing.

The crunch comes with regard the the massive amounts of data
they want on air travelers. At one time they wanted what
meals they ordered on the planes, but that has been dropped.

I have not seen the total list of about 30 items the Americans
are insisting on. Does anybody have this?

The last time we went to the US, on American Airlines in June,
the security agent asked us a really very large number of questions.
We spooked her since we had both US and French passports, but there
are a few us of "birds" around. Anyway, the what I thought was non-standard
question was asking for our hotel and car rental reservations in the US!
She wanted all our travel activity in the USA and even in London on the
way back!

The US authorities will require a lot of this information after March,
including credit card numbers! What if you refuse? What if you lie?
(like with WMDs in Iraq!).

Ultimately it will be dissuasive to traveling to the USA. Will the
European reciprocate? How would American travelers reaction to
intrusive investigation of their travel plans. I personally don`t
think European Governments want to repress tourism so will not do
this. BUT, they might in retaliation.

All this will unfold in the next year.

Earl

Following up to Earl Evleth

The US authorities will require a lot of this information after March,
including credit card numbers! What if you refuse? What if you lie?
(like with WMDs in Iraq!).

Ultimately it will be dissuasive to traveling to the USA.

Yes, its quite a contrast to travelling within the EU. The long
plane ride puts me off, customs fuss is maybe a last nail in the
coffin.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:05:20 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote:

The US authorities will require a lot of this information after March,
including credit card numbers! What if you refuse? What if you lie?

What if you haven't got a credit card ?
--
Tim.

If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.