Istanbul and Gallipoli

"Norman Spiney" wrote in message
...
On 4 Jun, 12:05, grusl wrote:
On Jun 4, 2:37 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:




Westminster Abbey is a large historic building in the centre of
London....
Gallipoli is overrated,

---------------------------------------------------------------

Battlefield sites in general are overrated IMHO
..

I have never yet been to one that didn't look just like a farmer's field

tim

"
In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't
especially mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are
knowledgable veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict
of course), but if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the
battlefield sites and memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or
car options.

My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore



Hey George --

It's been more than 15 years for me, but I don't remember much of anything
impressive about Canakkale, except for its location near Gallipoli and Troy.
Possibly because I got really sick there.

But if you're into history, it's fascinating just to look out on the
Dardenelles and think about the many fleets that tried to manipulate the
Straits and reach Istanbul. I was really touched at Gallipoli, seeing how
little the British, et al, knew of the geography and how they walked into a
slaughter. There's a moving quote from Ataturk (from much later),
(googling)....here it is:

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives..you are now lying
in the soil of a friendly country.Therefore rest in peace.There is no
difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by
side here in this country of ours.You the mothers who sent their sons from
far away countries wipe away your tears.Your sons are now living in our
bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they have
become our sons as well."

I guess it just depends on how you look at battlefields. I see them as
terrible human errors that we have to learn from. If enough people see how
stupid and needless this crap is, maybe they'll make it stop.

Anyway, sorry I got going there. Don't forget Troy if you have enough time.
It's a short ride from Canakkale. Ephesus is more impressive, but again,
it's fun to dream of the history that took place at your feet.

Sarh

"Sarah Banick" wrote in message
. ..

"
In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to
Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't
especially mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are
knowledgable veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict
of course), but if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the
battlefield sites and memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or
car options.

My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore



Hey George --

It's been more than 15 years for me, but I don't remember much of anything
impressive about Canakkale, except for its location near Gallipoli and
Troy. Possibly because I got really sick there.

But if you're into history, it's fascinating just to look out on the
Dardenelles and think about the many fleets that tried to manipulate the
Straits and reach Istanbul. I was really touched at Gallipoli, seeing how
little the British, et al, knew of the geography and how they walked into
a slaughter. There's a moving quote from Ataturk (from much later),
(googling)....here it is:

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives..you are now
lying in the soil of a friendly country.Therefore rest in peace.There is
no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie
side by side here in this country of ours.You the mothers who sent their
sons from far away countries wipe away your tears.Your sons are now living
in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they
have become our sons as well."

I guess it just depends on how you look at battlefields. I see them as
terrible human errors that we have to learn from. If enough people see how
stupid and needless this crap is, maybe they'll make it stop.

Anyway, sorry I got going there. Don't forget Troy if you have enough
time. It's a short ride from Canakkale. Ephesus is more impressive, but
again, it's fun to dream of the history that took place at your feet.


Thanks for the info, Sarah. I'm told Troy is almost invisible but will check
it out. It's unfortunate but inevitable that people (i.e. tedious Belgian)
have seized on the Gallipoli issue. It's no more significant than say,
Yorktown or Bull Run is to Americans, but as an Aussie I want to able to say
I've seen it. We've all been disappointed by the travel icons of our youth
.... anyway as I said it's Istanbul I'm looking forward to. If Canakkale
turns out not to be another Ann Arbor, no problem.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

"yedyegiss" wrote in message
...
Viviane wrote:

If you are not from Australia, it is hard to understand the devastation
caused by the first world war.

Yeah, I'm sure those British, Belgians, French, and Germans (to name
just a few) find it particularly hard to understand. Particularly the
Belgians and French, with Ypres/Ieper and Verdun.


I think everyone is reading Viviane's meaning incorrectly. I think she's
trying to say, it's hard to understand the effect the first WW had on
Aussies unless you're an Aussie.

On 4 Jun, 20:26, "grusl" wrote:
"Sarah Banick" wrote in message

. ..





"
In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to
Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't
especially mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are
knowledgable veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict
of course), but if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the
battlefield sites and memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or
car options.

My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

Hey George --

It's been more than 15 years for me, but I don't remember much of anything
impressive about Canakkale, except for its location near Gallipoli and
Troy. Possibly because I got really sick there.

But if you're into history, it's fascinating just to look out on the
Dardenelles and think about the many fleets that tried to manipulate the
Straits and reach Istanbul. I was really touched at Gallipoli, seeing how
little the British, et al, knew of the geography and how they walked into
a slaughter. There's a moving quote from Ataturk (from much later),
(googling)....here it is:

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives..you are now
lying in the soil of a friendly country.Therefore rest in peace.There is
no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie
side by side here in this country of ours.You the mothers who sent their
sons from far away countries wipe away your tears.Your sons are now living
in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they
have become our sons as well."

I guess it just depends on how you look at battlefields. I see them as
terrible human errors that we have to learn from. If enough people see how
stupid and needless this crap is, maybe they'll make it stop.

Anyway, sorry I got going there. Don't forget Troy if you have enough
time. It's a short ride from Canakkale. Ephesus is more impressive, but
again, it's fun to dream of the history that took place at your feet.

Thanks for the info, Sarah. I'm told Troy is almost invisible but will check
it out. It's unfortunate but inevitable that people (i.e. tedious Belgian)
have seized on the Gallipoli issue. It's no more significant than say,
Yorktown or Bull Run is to Americans, but as an Aussie I want to able to say
I've seen it. We've all been disappointed by the travel icons of our youth
... anyway as I said it's Istanbul I'm looking forward to. If Canakkale
turns out not to be another Ann Arbor, no problem.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

You asked us for help, I told you it was boring, and now you're upset.
Jeesh, what a stuck up sticky beak !

"Sarah Banick" wrote in message
. ..

"yedyegiss" wrote in message
...
Viviane wrote:

If you are not from Australia, it is hard to understand the devastation
caused by the first world war.

Yeah, I'm sure those British, Belgians, French, and Germans (to name
just a few) find it particularly hard to understand. Particularly the
Belgians and French, with Ypres/Ieper and Verdun.


I think everyone is reading Viviane's meaning incorrectly. I think she's
trying to say, it's hard to understand the effect the first WW had on
Aussies unless you're an Aussie.
I read it that way.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

Wonderful, that that after about 2 weeks or so, we have a meaningful
discussion on rte!
And also really pleased that some of the regular contributors are still
about.

And as for my 2 penneth worth..... Cannakkle is a small. non-descript town
with a harbour on the Dardanelles - but it is the jumping off point for both
Gallipoli and Troy.
Irrespective of nationality, interest in WW1, etc., Gallipoli is a MUST - as
too, obviously, is Troy.
Tours to both sites are widely available just about everywhere in
Cannakkale.

Regards
Gerry


"grusl" wrote in message
...

"Sarah Banick" wrote in message
. ..

"
In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to
Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't
especially mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are
knowledgable veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915
conflict of course), but if anyone knows a more interesting way to see
the battlefield sites and memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus,
train or car options.

My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore



Hey George --

It's been more than 15 years for me, but I don't remember much of
anything impressive about Canakkale, except for its location near
Gallipoli and Troy. Possibly because I got really sick there.

But if you're into history, it's fascinating just to look out on the
Dardenelles and think about the many fleets that tried to manipulate the
Straits and reach Istanbul. I was really touched at Gallipoli, seeing how
little the British, et al, knew of the geography and how they walked into
a slaughter. There's a moving quote from Ataturk (from much later),
(googling)....here it is:

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives..you are now
lying in the soil of a friendly country.Therefore rest in peace.There is
no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie
side by side here in this country of ours.You the mothers who sent their
sons from far away countries wipe away your tears.Your sons are now
living in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this
land they have become our sons as well."

I guess it just depends on how you look at battlefields. I see them as
terrible human errors that we have to learn from. If enough people see
how stupid and needless this crap is, maybe they'll make it stop.

Anyway, sorry I got going there. Don't forget Troy if you have enough
time. It's a short ride from Canakkale. Ephesus is more impressive, but
again, it's fun to dream of the history that took place at your feet.


Thanks for the info, Sarah. I'm told Troy is almost invisible but will
check it out. It's unfortunate but inevitable that people (i.e. tedious
Belgian) have seized on the Gallipoli issue. It's no more significant than
say, Yorktown or Bull Run is to Americans, but as an Aussie I want to able
to say I've seen it. We've all been disappointed by the travel icons of
our youth ... anyway as I said it's Istanbul I'm looking forward to. If
Canakkale turns out not to be another Ann Arbor, no problem.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

"Gerald Oliver Swift" kirjoitti
...
Wonderful, that that after about 2 weeks or so, we have a meaningful
discussion on rte!

You meant to say in rta?

"Markku Grönroos" wrote in message
.fi...

"Gerald Oliver Swift" kirjoitti
...
Wonderful, that that after about 2 weeks or so, we have a meaningful
discussion on rte!

You meant to say in rta?


The original post was made to both rte and rta.

rta is still relatively unpolluted, thankfully.
rte is another matter, no thanks to certain individuals!

Gerry

What an interesting, void life !
Please no more details !!!

"grusl" a écrit dans le message de
...
I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother.

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme
sokagi in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those
diacritics won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't
especially mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are
knowledgable veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict
of course), but if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the
battlefield sites and memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or
car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore