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Sensitive heads of state



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 3rd, 2007, 05:14 PM posted to soc.culture.thai,rec.travel.asia
¨راز¹
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Posts: 21
Default Sensitive heads of state

Sensitive heads of state
By Patrick Jackson
BBC News

Swiss citizen Oliver Jufer, who pleaded guilty to insulting the Thai king by
spray-painting portraits, has been jailed for 10 years under Thailand's
rarely used lese Majeste law.

Thailand is not the only state to prosecute those who offend their head of
state though few such laws are as draconian. Its law carries a maximum
prison sentence of 75 years.

The concept of lese Majeste (Eng: injury to the Majesty) as a crime goes
back to ancient Rome and was jealously guarded by absolute monarchs in
medieval Europe, while something similar existed in Asian cultures.

In Brunei, which like Thailand is ruled by a monarchy, three men were jailed
for a year in 2006 for sending mobile phone clips judged seditious and
insulting to Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah and his family.

Laws protecting the "dignity" of a monarch have been borrowed by many modern
republics.

In the Indian Ocean state of the Maldives, three journalists were sentenced
to life in 2002 for "insulting the president" and setting up a newsletter
critical of the government.

In Poland, a member of the European Union, you can technically get up to
three years for offending the president.

"Given that Mr Jurer comes from a country that has such strict rules about
when to take the garbage out, what time you can mow the lawn or wash your
clothes, he really should know better"
Yas, Malta

That protection is extended to any foreign head of state visiting the
country. Thus police arrested 28 demonstrators in 2005 who were protesting
against President Vladimir Putin of Russia, a country which has not enjoyed
good relations with its western neighbour at the best of times.

The chief concern about insult laws among human rights campaigners is that
they can be used to stifle freedom of expression.

A basic right

"Freedom of speech is one of the most basic human rights," a spokesperson
for Amnesty International told the BBC News website.

"No state should be prosecuting any individual for expressing an opinion
held peacefully."

Amnesty is not quibbling with laws on defamation or incitement which, it
says, rightfully exist in any state to protect individuals and the
community.

But other than these recognised limits on freedom of speech, there should be
no restrictions, it argues.

Republics which have prosecuted people for insulting their heads of state in
recent years are typified by authoritarian leaders

a.. An Egyptian court sentenced blogger Abdel Kareem Soliman in February
to four years in prison for insulting Islam and President Hosni Mubarak

b.. Kazakhstan gave journalist Kaziz Toguzbayev a two-year suspended
sentence in January for "insulting the honour and dignity" of President
Nursultan Nazarbayev

c.. Zimbabwe gave a two-year suspended sentence to businessman Jason
Gambitzs in 2004 for denigrating President Robert Mugabe by saying he had
"printed useless money"

d.. Belarus sentenced two opposition figures, Valeriy Levonevskiy and
Alexander Vasiliev, in 2004 for publicly insulting President Alexander
Lukashenko

e.. Syria sentenced journalist Mohammad Ghanem to six months in prison in
2006 for charges which included insulting President Bashar al-Assad
Access to the popular video-sharing website YouTube was suspended in Turkey
this month after prosecutors told a court that clips had appeared on the
site insulting national hero Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - who has been dead for
nearly 70 years.

Rebellious or rude?

Freedom of speech was not, strictly speaking, at issue in Thailand's
prosecution of Oliver Jufer, who admitted spray-painting several portraits
of the king while drunk.

"It was the idea that being rude about a government was a very bad idea - it
hurt the government but was technically not treason because no act of
rebellion was committed," Prof Ronald Hutton of Bristol University told the
BBC News website.

"In the days before the idea of constitutional opposition, any opposition
was regarded as criminal and anybody who spoke against the government had to
be prosecuted because it could incite rebellion."

If the concept now sounds obscure in that other leading contemporary
monarchy Britain, it is thanks to King Henry VIII (1491-1547), who took
personal injury one step further.

"Traditionally you have a division in countries between acts against the
monarch which are treason and rude things said against the monarch which are
lese Majeste," Prof Hutton explains.

"But Henry VIII passed an act which made speaking against the king treason
in itself so lese Majeste became redundant."

Before anyone gets unduly anxious about offending Queen Elizabeth II, it
should be pointed out that British parliamentarians dealt with that part of
Henry's act long ago.

Since the 1790s, Prof Hutton points out, Britain has had freedom of speech
legislation which covers most of what was once "Treason-by-words".

Your comments

Well... if you are walking down the street in London facing massive Queen's
portraits on every corner, pretty sure you will be intimidated or annoyed.
J.Woo, Uk

"When in Rome, do as the Romans. When in Asia, do as the Asians, please."
But what if the Roman or Asian way is against the basic right of human
beings, then what?
unnamed reader

This is truly shocking. Respect is earned, not ordained. I respect the Thai
people. They have to live and work under such capricious and vile laws. I
have zero respect for their King that doesn't rationally find such laws
inhumane... He's been given the fate of millions by birthright without ever
earning that enormous right and responsibility. Us "Westerners" may not be
the beacons of honour and morality to most of you, certainly my country's
leadership is lacking beyond imaging, but I am proud they're thick-skinned
enough not to be disassembled by mere insults. How fragile Thailand's
monarchy must be if they fear the act of a drunkard... I question the
upbringing of some of you that support this garbage. Any of those that
suggest to blindly follow authority have clearly lost some capability...
called thinking. If you defend such onerous nonsense, you should be jailed
along with the drunk, for supporting such dangerous laws of repression that
clearly is a danger to all of Thailand... From the country that can take its
punches and give some back. Peace.
Ernesto, Washington DC

Being a Thai living in many countries abroad longer than in Thailand I find
some opinions on the issue most interesting while others to be downright
pitiful. When one travels the world one cannot just hold on to one's own
supreme standard but adjust and adapt as one goes along - to make the most
of what are on offer and to one's own benefits and enjoyment. The Swiss has
lived for a decade in one of the most beautiful cities in the world with a
mild climate, well-mannered gentle people and great choices of food, and at
a fraction of what he would have to pay in Switzerland. One day he got drunk
and did what not only goes against the law but is also the most offensive
act to the Thais. Is this not the case of taking out of the land more than
he put in? He should have left the country if and when he's so unhappy at
the way it's governed. In my opinion he deserves what he's got, perhaps he
will make himself useful while serving his sentence? I do believe, however,
that he will be pardoned one day. And in a larger picture, I hope, a lesson
is learned (or is it not?) and the point is made. And to those ignorant few
the Thai King has worked extremely hard throughout his life for his own
people and the land, and in so doing he has earned the highest respect and
love from his own people. He is our father. I now wish to ask how do you
treat your own selfless father? And how would you feel & react when someone
tries to knock him down?
Suraphee Simpson, Surbiton, Surrey, England

"Draconian sentences like the one handed down today serve no purpose in the
21st century other than to maintain already fraught divisions between
Western and Eastern cultures"
Marc, London
BBC News website reader

When I lived in Thai refugee camps in the 80s, we were not allowed to mess
with Thai Baht which have the king's pictures or emblem on them. Refugees
were beaten up every day just because their lack of respect for the Thai
King. Even when the Thai national anthem is playing, no matter where you are
or what you do, you must stand still and straight. If Thailand means the
land of the free, then it should reconsider it name.
S. Ley, Santa Ana, US

I'm a Filipino living in Japan for the last 6 years and have met many Thai
nationals, and I can say that they truly have a deep respect for their King.
For those who criticize the Thai monarch for being pompous or having a
temper, I would like to say that the King does not charge anyone with "lese
majeste" (and if I'm not mistaken, has never had, at least in contemporary
Thailand); it's the police that does. There are cases wherein the said law
was indeed abused (i.e. when politicians accuse their rivals), but in the
case of Mr. Jufer, his actions are similar to flag-burning/defacing of
national symbols and should be punished, although I would agree that the
sentence is draconian indeed.
Christian Ernest, Oita, Japan

Everyone in Thailand knows the respect that the royal family, and in
particular the King, are held in. Of course one should do what is expected
of you in a different country and culture. Having said that the law
regarding the Thai monarchy serves no one but the powerful - who have
managed to hide behind it for their political advantage before (example
Thaksin expelling critical foreign journalists on the grounds they insulted
the monarchy). This rule does Thailand no favours, laws are not needed for
the King to be respected (he has it already), social mores are enough to
ensure respect is given - it only shows Thailand in a poor way to the
international community.
Tim, Seoul Korea

Given that Mr Jurer comes from a country that has such strict rules about
when to take the garbage out, what time you can mow the lawn or wash your
clothes, he really should know better. I agree with Derek from Canada. The
rule is simple: Respect the rules of the country you are in, otherwise stay
home.
Yas, Malta

The guy has absolutely no excuse. As foreigners in this country we are all
well aware of Thais' respect for their monarch. They and most foreigners
still stand for the national anthem in the cinema before a film. I am sorry
but it's values like this that form a National Identity and give a people
pride. What would happen if you played the national anthem before a film in
the UK? Also the offender will have been well aware in advance that he would
be unable to buy alcohol on this day and should have done like all sensible
foreigners here and had a supply at home.
Paul, Pattaya Thailand

Although the court ruling of ten years is very severe, the point in fact is
that Oliver Jufer was disrespectful and vandalous. He not only went on a
rampage of vandalism throughout the city of Chang Mai but also chose to
degrade symbols of the very core of society in the country that was hosting
him. If we had strict such punishment and reverence for our cultural symbols
there might be a lot less vandalism in our communities as well. Respect for
property and cultural symbols is innate to any nation and this man
deliberately went contrary to the respect of that land. He deserves to be
punished.
Antonio, Tokyo, Japan

Folks need to remember that yes, as draconian and exaggerated as the
sentence may appear... this law is not imposed or even necessarily
acknowledged by the king, but is enforced more so by all his subjects who
see him as someone who very genuinely holds his people to heart and see him
as the one pivotal figure of stability in a country with a history fraught
with political instability and corruption and just as any of you might feel
angered, even vengeful perhaps at someone demonstrating total, uncalled for
disrespect to your immediate family members, so do the Thai people feel
protective of their king whom they lovingly refer to as father.
long term expat resident in Thailand, Bangkok


I find this ridiculous... In the 21st century today, people can even freely
criticise or insult the gods - who does the Thai king think he is? God? or
superior than gods? Outrageous! People should boycott travel industry in
Thailand. Such country is a horrified country, every single tourist in there
must be cautioned over the unstable politics and their "sacred" king... who
knows maybe some day a single wrong saying about their king there can cost
your fortune and life. Wake up, it's the 21st century not the feudal era.
Everyone is an equal individual, We don't need anyone superior over us.
X, UK


having lived in parts of asia for years, I kinda get the whole respects for
monarchy thing - its not about respecting a terrifying institution, but
about respecting an institution that symbolises a nation and a people, in a
way. If individuals in parts of the 'free' west can be charged under law for
burning the flag of certain nations, what difference defacing a poster
depicting a symbol of another? If this guy had been simply an ignorant
tourist, then he wouldn't know better, but he had lived in the country for
10 years. Though I hope he is pardoned, I understand why a nation that has
made him welcome for such a time might not feel inclined to let him off
lightly.
penny, Glasgow, Scotland


Yet another travesty of Thai "Justice". This says far more about Thailand
than it does about Oliver Jufer; Draconian sentences like the one handed
down today serve no purpose in the 21st century other than to maintain
already fraught divisions between Western and Eastern cultures.
Marc, London


If King Bhumibol can truly call himself as such then he should step in and
pardon Oliver Jufer.
Richard, London, UK


No one brings anything into the world at birth, no one will take anything
out of it at death. Everybody, including monarchs, should bear that in mind.
wilhelm mistiaen, antwerp, belgium


While we enjoy the privilege of international travel, especially to places
in Asia, we are made aware of, and therefore must abide by, all national and
international laws. Many foreigners travelling through such countries seem
to think that they are above these laws and that they only apply to the
"locals" and that their respective embassies will step up and get them out
of trouble. It's simple, respect the laws of the countries that let you in.
Derek Junor, Toronto, Canada


The countries you mentioned are just the tip of the ice-berg. Regimes which
need these repressive laws to avoid accountability and shut down public
debate are the real traitors.
Adrian, Melbourne, Australia


For Murdoch in Prague: It seems clear from your comments that you understand
nothing of respectability, opinions, laws or customs of other countries. I
do wonder what kind of upbringing you were subjected to that you cannot see
the man was wrong in insulting and not respecting His Majesty the King.
Furthermore, I do not believe His Majesty sees Westerners as threats. The
whole issue fundamentally lies with respecting one's culture, which the West
seems to have forgotten how to. Any patriots would understand that. If you
are one, and find your country insulted, I doubt you would write what you,
sadly, have written. Respectfully yours, M in Oxford.
M, Oxford


Honestly, I find this rather comic and cruel at the same time, on one side
you have a drunk and on the other, a king, who in my opinion, must have an
explosive temper and turn purple at the mere idea of him being put down. Yes
it may be against the law to do so, yet if all of a sudden the king says
that he feels that anyone from the West is a threat and should be kicked out
to maintain his ego, is that right? No, and all this is is one person poking
fun at the king. It poses no threat to the king at all. So why freak out
over an insult? Now this may sound harsh but why not just quit being
self-saturated and care for your people for they are the ones keeping your
country alive, it's not all you sir.
Murdoch, Prague. Czech Republic


It is appalling that such extreme laws still exist. The king of Thailand may
be loved by his people, but since it is illegal to report anything but good
news, they cannot possibly know what he is really like. Maybe he is as
wonderful as they think, but maybe not. These draconian laws do not help the
monarchy, except to stifle and control any opposition. I think they are used
to stop ordinary Thai people learning the truth about how their country is
run behind the scenes and by whom.
Mary Aquila, Stockholm, Sweden


I think it was just a rude act, and an apology should suffice. Personally, I
believe it is most insulting to other human to consider oneself a king or
queen. Aren't we all created equal?
Jamila Thomas, USA/kwt


Sorry, I am Chinese, but I still find this ridiculous. I know in the ancient
Asian couture, these kind of acts are very serious crimes. Not just Asia,
but I guess everywhere of the world. However, in modern world? No way. Don't
claim this Asian culture, maybe it's a Thai culture, but it's not an Asian
culture, it's a feudal and out of date practice. In modern Asian societies,
we don't think this "lese Majeste" act is any good thing and can represent
Asian culture. Never! PS, I criticise our Chinese Communist leaders and
their policies everyday, even the former chairman Mao.
Ming, China


In the Far East, we respect our monarchs not only as part of our culture,
but even to the extend of our beliefs (divine majesty) sometimes. As such
the view of lese Majeste is somewhat more serious compared to the "openness"
of Western culture. You say, when in Rome, do as the Romans. I say, when in
Asia, do as the Asians, please.
T.Chunlakorn, Thailand


The man deserves what he got. He has been in Thailand 10 years and without a
doubt knew at the time that his actions would most likely result in his
prosecution. Everyone in Thailand knows this, even ordinary tourists.
Howard Rickman, Bangkok Thailand


I've lived in Thailand for the past five years. The guy should have known
better. There's no excuse. But for "P. Kamao" from Kenya, saying that it's
normal for Westerners not to have any respect, is a foolish and
contradictory statement. I've been to Africa as an NGO and I've seen the
respect that your "elders" have given to the people. And it wasn't pretty.
And I've lived in Asia long enough to realize there is no respect in
driving. This was simply someone making a stupid decision. You have to
remember there are thousands of other Westerners living in countries like
Thailand who are respectful.
T. Johnson, Bangkok, Thailand


You know, it may seem outrageous from the Western perspective! But Western
people should know that respect is very important in most cultures and
societies especially in Asia and Africa. I think the Swiss man is paying for
his bad bringing up! perhaps he grew up without any sense of respect for
anybody including his elders, the trend of which is so familiar and normal
in western children and adults.
P. Kamao, Kenya- US

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/in_depth/6498297.stm





  #2  
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:50 PM posted to soc.culture.thai,rec.travel.asia
Alessandro Selli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Sensitive heads of state

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

¨راز¹ ha scritto:

I respect the Thai people. They have to live and work under such capricious
and vile laws. Ihave zero respect for their King that doesn't rationally
find such lawsinhumane...

[...]
Ernesto, Washington DC


Let's see how this compares with the thoughts of one Tha^W Siamese
citizen facing lese majeste charges against him:

http://www.sulak-sivaraksa.org/web/sulak7113.php

The present king clearly stated that he is an ordinary human being who
can say and do incorrect things. Hence, if citizens are loyal to the
king they should criticize him.

The king and the monarchy shouldn't be used as a tool to attack others,
to foster egoism, or to portray how fervent a devotee of Nation,
Religion, and King one is. The king also stated that any lese majeste
case filed will negatively impact him. He once declared, "If a royal
opinion cannot be challenged, then there's no way for the Thai country
to progress."

Lamentably, those who are acting as a king above the king are charging
others with lese majeste as if they haven't listened to the royal
speeches. The Asian Human Rights Commission, for instance, has protested
the charge of lese majeste filed against the editor of Fah Diew Kun.
Several books on or mentioning about the king have been banned from the
kingdom, notably: The Devil's Discus by Ray Kruger (1964), The
Revolutionary King by William Stevenson (1999), and most recently The
King Never Smiles by Paul M. Handley (2006). Aren't these actions making
a mockery of the country? Aren't they contradicting the king's message?
Can books really be banned from the kingdom in this day and age?

- --
Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net
AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno.
WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me.
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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  #3  
Old April 5th, 2007, 04:20 AM posted to soc.culture.thai,rec.travel.asia
¨راز¹
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Sensitive heads of state

"Alessandro Selli" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

¨راز¹ ha scritto:

I respect the Thai people. They have to live and work under such
capricious
and vile laws. Ihave zero respect for their King that doesn't rationally
find such lawsinhumane...

[...]
Ernesto, Washington DC


Let's see how this compares with the thoughts of one Tha^W Siamese
citizen facing lese majeste charges against him:

http://www.sulak-sivaraksa.org/web/sulak7113.php

The present king clearly stated that he is an ordinary human being who
can say and do incorrect things. Hence, if citizens are loyal to the
king they should criticize him.

The king and the monarchy shouldn't be used as a tool to attack others,
to foster egoism, or to portray how fervent a devotee of Nation,
Religion, and King one is. The king also stated that any lese majeste
case filed will negatively impact him. He once declared, "If a royal
opinion cannot be challenged, then there's no way for the Thai country
to progress."

Lamentably, those who are acting as a king above the king are charging
others with lese majeste as if they haven't listened to the royal
speeches. The Asian Human Rights Commission, for instance, has protested
the charge of lese majeste filed against the editor of Fah Diew Kun.
Several books on or mentioning about the king have been banned from the
kingdom, notably: The Devil's Discus by Ray Kruger (1964), The
Revolutionary King by William Stevenson (1999), and most recently The
King Never Smiles by Paul M. Handley (2006). Aren't these actions making
a mockery of the country? Aren't they contradicting the king's message?
Can books really be banned from the kingdom in this day and age?


Theorethical, the King is the highest power in a country and therefore all
the laws and their implications are carried out in the King's name.

If someone such as Oliver Jufer is sentenced to jail because of "lesse
majeste", he is theorethically (indirect) sentenced by the King himself.

The King of Thailand, has made a speech about "lesse majeste" which
contradict the existing laws.
Yet he has done nothing to prevent the further (ab)use of these laws.

In the case of Oliver Jufer, I agree with most of the "blogs" and he has
done a stupid action for which he is paying the price now.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans does".

This whole discusion reminds me of the position of the King of Belgium a few
years ago.

When the government was making a new law about "abortion" the King posed his
veto to this law as he was a devote catholic and such law was against his
beliefs.

So, King Boudewijn, went into "exile" for a week in Spain in his villa, and
when he came back the new law was passed trough the legislation and was
applied by the court.

Many cases have passed the court in later stages about abortion whilst King
Boudewijn was in power, but he did not interfere in any of these cases.


- --
Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net
AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno.
WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGFA+K3xmftOyIWosRAqM6AJ9+IwQNQ9DPhwAVUhkA0C 8tKEfu8QCgiBn9
HNp18cF9MDpwVUGiGUabfk8=
=k+Uw
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