Avoid Delta and Atlanta

On 15 Aug 2006 20:29:03 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 18:09:13 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Jordi wrote:

No, they're not.

Spoken like a true Euro who have never been to the US.

Before you come up with the "smart" response, I've been to Europe
probably 100 times and visited a large number of European countries.

Nice one. How come you have such an odd view of Europe? Is it because
you are lying?

No, it's because I've been all over the world and have had the
opportunity to compare various cultures.

There's history, you see. Are you by any chance pretending the US is
exempt from those?

No. Just pointing out the fact that the reason so many Euros have
passports is due to hatred and bigotry, not some cultural superiority
as has been implied.

Very bizzare response.

Yes, I find European history quite odd myself. I assume that you're not
trying to claim that the reasons that Europe is chopped up into a few
dozen small countries is *not* because of the hatred and bigotry that
has marked your entire history.

That's a very over-simplified view of European history. It's been
"chopped up" since the fall of the Roman Empire and the onset of
the Dark Ages, when communications and transportation became so
difficult that each small area became isolated. And when it came
to the petty wars of the medieval era that kept jumbling up the
mix of countries it had little to do with bigotry and hatred and
a lot to do with the drive for power and wealth on the part of
the nobility.

Of course, there was lot of bigotry and hatred in the area of the
Balkans, but that's only part of Europe, and a lot of it was due
to the Islamic conquest of much of the Balkans.

You betray a certain shallowness.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Carole Allen wrote:
On 15 Aug 2006 21:13:20 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Wrong yet again. This part of the thread started when someone (I forget
who) was trying to claim some type of superiority for Euros because
more Euros have passports than Americans. Well the reason is not
because of any cultural reason but because Europe is split up into tiny
countries while the US is not. And the reason that Europe is split up
is primarily due to generations of hatred and bigotry. Thus the reason
that Europeans have passports is because Europeans *need* passports to
travel and that is because of the history of bigotry and hatred that
has kept the continent chopped up into small political units.


The US is just split up into 50 states

Unified states.

...hmmm..and polarized ones at that...

I see. So one state in the US voting Republican and another state
voting Democrat is, to you, akin to one country in Europe invading
another and starting a war that kills a few million people?

And all that is irrelevant to the discussion.

You sound like my kid "But Daddy, other people do bad things, too".

Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and bigotry
that has kept the continent at war with itself for centuries. Not
something to be proud of.

and Europeans can travel between most countries without going through
any kind of passport control.

These days, yes. But that's a recent development. The reason a lot of
Euros have passports was because that wasn't the case until recently.

Try to keep up.

Hatunen wrote:
On 15 Aug 2006 20:29:03 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:

Yes, I find European history quite odd myself. I assume that you're not
trying to claim that the reasons that Europe is chopped up into a few
dozen small countries is *not* because of the hatred and bigotry that
has marked your entire history.

That's a very over-simplified view of European history. It's been
"chopped up" since the fall of the Roman Empire and the onset of
the Dark Ages, when communications and transportation became so
difficult that each small area became isolated. And when it came
to the petty wars of the medieval era that kept jumbling up the
mix of countries it had little to do with bigotry and hatred and
a lot to do with the drive for power and wealth on the part of
the nobility.

Of course, there was lot of bigotry and hatred in the area of the
Balkans, but that's only part of Europe, and a lot of it was due
to the Islamic conquest of much of the Balkans.

Are you suggesting that Germany didn't invade France in the 1940s? Or
that millions of Jews weren't slaughtered? Or that WWI didn't happen?
Or that European history isn't basically the story of one war after
another as various groups tried to conquer or slaughter various other
groups?

The US was once a group of small political entities that didn't much
like each other. But the US unified (for better or for worse). Europe
was never able to unify because of the hatred and bigotry and can't
unify today for many of the same reasons.

You betray a certain shallowness.

Why? Because I don't buy the view that the fact that Europe has been
split up for centuries requiring most Euros to have passports in order
to travel for more than a few hours somehow gives them some type of
cultural superiority?

That was the topic.

Following up to Carole Allen

and Europeans can travel between most countries without going through
any kind of passport control.

there's no place for common sense in this debate.
The French speak English in the street, Scotland is Balkanising
itself from the UK and every state of the union has a different
language, (I believe its Basque in Idaho).
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"

Following up to Hatunen

Like I say, I didn't bring up the Basques, which is the sort of
claim I am responding to.

the point about the Basques is that when Americans claim they
have diversity v European countries, there is that level of
diversity *within* those European countries.
I suspect the andalucian gypies are at least as different from
the Basques as California is from wherever. And have been so long
enough to mark the landscape.
When you move to a diversity of nation states you get even more
fundemental differences.
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"

Following up to Hatunen

that's a classic, "everybody in Europe speaks English". Is the
man trolling?

In all fairness, he didn't say "everybody".

True, but "almost all" is just as silly and if not a troll
indicates someone who has never moved outside major tourist
spots. .
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"

The Reid wrote:
Following up to Hatunen

that's a classic, "everybody in Europe speaks English". Is the
man trolling?

In all fairness, he didn't say "everybody".

True, but "almost all" is just as silly and if not a troll
indicates someone who has never moved outside major tourist
spots. .

Tourist spots??? English is the primary and *official* language of
government for the EU. It is the primary language of business
throughout the EU. It is the primary language for education throughout
the EU.

Time to get back into the current century.

http://linguistlist.org/issues/12/12-166.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3143464.stm

"Italians place a very high importance on learning languages,
particularly English. Fifteen years ago it was quite difficult to find
an English speaker here but today it is relatively easy."

The Reid wrote:
Following up to Carole Allen

and Europeans can travel between most countries without going through
any kind of passport control.

there's no place for common sense in this debate.

Plenty of common sense in the discussion. It's your ability to
comprehend that is at question.

The French speak English in the street,

Many do. And the government of France is now using English. Did you see
where Chirac walked out of a meeting because one of his ministers
decided to use English?

Scotland is Balkanising itself from the UK

No, not *IS*. *DID*. Scotland was "owned" by England at one time and
split off with a rather violent revolution. Check your history books.

and every state of the union has a different language, (I believe its Basque in Idaho).

Dialects, common languages, minority languages, etc. Are you so naive
about the US not to realize that a significant percentage don't speak
English as a first language? And that some (I believe around 5-10%)
don't speak English at all?

The Reid wrote:
Following up to Hatunen

Like I say, I didn't bring up the Basques, which is the sort of
claim I am responding to.

the point about the Basques is that when Americans claim they
have diversity v European countries, there is that level of
diversity *within* those European countries.
I suspect the andalucian gypies are at least as different from
the Basques as California is from wherever. And have been so long
enough to mark the landscape.
When you move to a diversity of nation states you get even more
fundemental differences.

Diversity? Of what? Language, race, religion? In some of those areas
the US is *dramatically* more diverse than Europe.

In California the majority of the people are non-Caucasian. English is
*not* the first language for around 1/3. Somewhere around 20% were born
outside the US.

The US has a significantly greater diversity of races than Europe. And
religions. And of tolerance and acceptance of diversity. You only need
to look at the entrenched bigotry against Jew in Europe or the fact
that the EU won't let Turkey in primarily because it's a majority
muslim nation.

When it comes to diversity Europe isn't even the running.

On 15 Aug 2006 21:24:55 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 17:46:14 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 13 Aug 2006 21:25:19 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 10 Aug 2006 18:01:31 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:

Utter rubbish. These people are no more likely to have links with Al
Qaeda and the Taliban than anyone else. They were just rounded up so
the USA could have some spoils.

And your proof of that?

They are being deprived due process only because many of them would be
found to have done nothing.

And your proof of *that*???

Just read the ****ing article and educate yourself. They have been
assumed guilty, and have no way of proving otherwise.

In other words you have to proof and you are willing to believe any
slanted article you can find.

Please, show where the slant is. The info comes from government
sources, and I can't seem to fault it. Help me if you like.

The slant is obvious in the phrasing of the article. There is a very
clear agenda.

In particular which part? I suspect you haven't even looked at it.

Actually I did. It appears to be you that didn't.

The article is not an article it is an editorial comment. Do you
understand the difference?

The editorial comes from a source (BBC) that has already been caught
deliberately distorting information about the wars in Afghanistan and
Iraq to further a rather extreme Left political view.

The information does *NOT* come from a government source. The article
doesn't claim that it does. The information comes from a "DEFENSE
ATTORNEY* who claims to have analyzed other data:

"Yet a thorough analysis by an American law professor and a defence
lawyer of information released by the US defence department revealed
last week that 92% of the 517 Guantanamo detainees had not been
al-Qaeda fighters."

And of course defense attorney's would never consider slanting their
information to serve their clients, would they?

And after all that, you still conclude that all of them are guilty,
and deserve no legal recourse. Not so much as a shadow of a doubt.
None.

You've obviously made up your mind on this one, so there's not much
point in trying to get any sense out of, or into you. That brain of
yours is in lockdown denial mode.
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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